Standstill Forehand Help

[sidewinder22]

1. Looks like your grip comes loose at release. You want to clench your fingers into your palm to make the disc pivot around at release.

2. Your left arm is out instead of tucking into body. Your left foot goes out to the right around front foot instead of countering behind like bowling.

3. You lift your right elbow up at release instead of slashing thru level.

 

[Brodysseus]

1. Looks like your grip comes loose at release. You want to clench your fingers into your palm to make the disc pivot around at release.

2. Your left arm is out instead of tucking into body. Your left foot goes out to the right around front foot instead of countering behind like bowling.

3. You lift your right elbow up at release instead of slashing thru level.

View attachment 333577

1. I have adjusted my grip (a few weeks ago) trying to get a more to combat this. But I've definitely gotten lax and need to refocus on squeezing.

2. This has been on my list of stuff-that-is-obviously-wrong-with-my-throw-but-I-have-not-known-how-to-adress, so will try to be more cognizant. Is it similar to backhand where I push that offhand down and in a bit? Or just keep it wrapped in?

3. Oh wow, yeah. That seems pretty egregious. Not sure how to address that one but thank you for putting it on my radar. Gonna mess around with it and see if I can get my head wrapped around it.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Maybe I'm wrong but this doesn't look like a great grip for generating clean and powerful releases.




Can I ask what sources you used to develop your grip? I don't want to step on toes if you've been to a FH expert or used someone online who is considered expert help, but I think you're just annihilating your release with that grip. If I'm right in what I think I'm seeing, you could probably cut most of your wobble by fixing grip alone.

 

[Brodysseus]

Maybe I'm wrong but this doesn't look like a great grip for generating clean and powerful releases.

View attachment 333584
View attachment 333585

Can I ask what sources you used to develop your grip? I don't want to step on toes if you've been to a FH expert or used someone online who is considered expert help, but I think you're just annihilating your release with that grip. If I'm right in what I think I'm seeing, you could probably cut most of your wobble by fixing grip alone.

You are not stepping on any toes whatsoever. Please share your input!

This Overthrow video is what I'm trying to model my grip after.

 

[timothy42b]

Lots of wobble on all of them. I think you are pronating your wrist. They are all turning over.

The low to high was the best of that group.

sidewinder suggested you let your arm float up. You aren't doing that. You are steering your arm back.

 

[ChrisWoj]

You are not stepping on any toes whatsoever. Please share your input!

This Overthrow video is what I'm trying to model my grip after.

Oooooof... Yeah, not a fan of much of what he's saying there.

Placing the index finger onto the middle finger is the first issue I see. I don't think, when clenching, that you've really got the index and middle finger applying force in precisely the same direction with the grip he sets up.

And now the thumb - he gets a little benefit of the doubt, because he's setting up a different grip, but even though having the thumb out toward the rim gets you a firmer grip with that particular orientation of middle/index finger, it is still substantially less firm than what you'd get with the fingers oriented differently and the thumb pointed more toward the center of the disc.

Here's a video that'll show you my preference for the underside of the disc:


I don't discuss thumb positioning, but basically: I orient the thumb so that it is pointing just toward the nose side of the middle of the disc. And what that's doing with the grip I demonstrate in the video is creating a pinch that is at the first knuckle of the index finger, which for my money is much more powerful than his pinch which seems to be more toward the fingertip.

 

[Brodysseus]

Oooooof... Yeah, not a fan of much of what he's saying there.

Placing the index finger onto the middle finger is the first issue I see. I don't think, when clenching, that you've really got the index and middle finger applying force in precisely the same direction with the grip he sets up.

And now the thumb - he gets a little benefit of the doubt, because he's setting up a different grip, but even though having the thumb out toward the rim gets you a firmer grip with that particular orientation of middle/index finger, it is still substantially less firm than what you'd get with the fingers oriented differently and the thumb pointed more toward the center of the disc.

Here's a video that'll show you my preference for the underside of the disc:


I don't discuss thumb positioning, but basically: I orient the thumb so that it is pointing just toward the nose side of the middle of the disc. And what that's doing with the grip I demonstrate in the video is creating a pinch that is at the first knuckle of the index finger, which for my money is much more powerful than his pinch which seems to be more toward the fingertip.

I will certainly give it a try. What are you doing with the pinky and ring fingers? Off the disc? Against the disc(if so, where on the finger)?

 

[ChrisWoj]

I will certainly give it a try. What are you doing with the pinky and ring fingers? Off the disc? Against the disc(if so, where on the finger)?

If you go to about 1:20 of my video you'll see their approximate position. In an actual throw, though, they're going to basically be pre-clenched. Those two fingers are already creating almost a brace of their own, by clenching into the palm already, that the other fingers are pulling into. Like - open your hand and try to firmly clench your middle and index fingers with those fingers open. Now bring those fingers into the hand and pre-clench them into your hand sorta like you're holding up a peace sign but with your thumb out of the way. For me, when I do that, sharply clenching the index and middle fingers into the hand feels much firmer.

I didn't quibble too much with seeing your fingers outside the rim because it kinda feels like those can 'lead' the clench from that position, but I definitely think I prefer to have them already in.

 

[Brodysseus]

If you go to about 1:20 of my video you'll see their approximate position. In an actual throw, though, they're going to basically be pre-clenched. Those two fingers are already creating almost a brace of their own, by clenching into the palm already, that the other fingers are pulling into. Like - open your hand and try to firmly clench your middle and index fingers with those fingers open. Now bring those fingers into the hand and pre-clench them into your hand sorta like you're holding up a peace sign but with your thumb out of the way. For me, when I do that, sharply clenching the index and middle fingers into the hand feels much firmer.

I didn't quibble too much with seeing your fingers outside the rim because it kinda feels like those can 'lead' the clench from that position, but I definitely think I prefer to have them already in.

OK, I'm messing around with it and definitely feeling the pinch point at the first knuckle of my index finger. Definitely going to mess with it in the field today but here's some pics of what feels solid to me.

 

[ChrisWoj]

OK, I'm messing around with it and definitely feeling the pinch point at the first knuckle of my index finger. Definitely going to mess with it in the field today but here's some pics of what feels solid to me.

View attachment 333589View attachment 333590View attachment 333591View attachment 333592

I hope its helpful!

I look forward to the help of others here soon, I'm gonna try to start rebuilding my backhand by baby steps. I feel like I've got by on bad form with long arms for way too long.

 

[Brodysseus]

This just blew up this morning. I will be going back through and responding to comments and asking some clarifying questions.

But I headed out to the field to work on all of these great suggestions. And it went... terribly. This was an extremely frustrating session. So much so that I almost just gave up on session. But instead I changed my focus.

I decided to just focus on the new grip that ChrisWoj suggested. I did not focus on my elbow or my footwork or any of that. I also abbreviated my reachback and follow through, really trying to focus on the wrist action. I have so much wobble and so little spin so grip and wrist action seem like a good focus.

Here's what it looked like:
2/23/24 FH (WojGrip)

It seemed... maybe a little bit cleaner? I don't know, I'm banging my head against the wall here. I'm going to keep messing with the forehand until next weekend when I have a doubles tournament with my dad. After that, if the frustration is still there (this week of field sessions has been ROUGH) I may just hang it up until my PT thinks I can work the backhand back in.

I truly appreciate the continued help though!

 

[Brodysseus]

I hope its helpful!

I look forward to the help of others here soon, I'm gonna try to start rebuilding my backhand by baby steps. I feel like I've got by on bad form with long arms for way too long.

I tried it out (video above). It felt awkward but stronger... seemed to be just as wobbly though.

 

[Brodysseus]

Lots of wobble on all of them. I think you are pronating your wrist. They are all turning over.

The low to high was the best of that group.

sidewinder suggested you let your arm float up. You aren't doing that. You are steering your arm back.

1. Yes I'm doing something very wrong because I have SO MUCH wobble.

2. That's what I felt too.

3. I'm having a hard time wrapping my head around that.

 

[Kennets]

You are already getting solid advices, so take this with grain of salt.

I think (correct me if I'm wrong guys) your mental understanding of the FH is wrong.

How's your throwing arm in general? Can you throw a fast ball? Skip a rock? Like, get any decent power/throwing motion when you do that?

It looks like (to me) that your throwing arm/body [COLOR=var(--text)]is moving to fast left/back, like youre trying to make it a "spinning" throw, when infact it's lateral movement/throw it at the target/throw the baseball at the batter (my mental cue at least). You need to clench hard on that disc, as Andrew said, and visualize getting your arm going straight at the target and LEAN into it[/COLOR]

You're almost completely upright on your front foot/posting up, standing up through the throw, instead of leaning into it.

I do not think you need to drop your hips at hard into the plant as the pitcher, but it's a good visual.

 

[Brodysseus]

You are already getting solid advices, so take this with grain of salt.

I think (correct me if I'm wrong guys) your mental understanding of the FH is wrong.

How's your throwing arm in general? Can you throw a fast ball? Skip a rock? Like, get any decent power/throwing motion when you do that?

It looks like (to me) that your throwing arm/body [COLOR=var(--text)]is moving to fast left/back, like youre trying to make it a "spinning" throw, when infact it's lateral movement/throw it at the target/throw the baseball at the batter (my mental cue at least). You need to clench hard on that disc, as Andrew said, and visualize getting your arm going straight at the target and LEAN into it[/COLOR]

You're almost completely upright on your front foot/posting up, standing up through the throw, instead of leaning into it.

I do not think you need to drop your hips at hard into the plant as the pitcher, but it's a good visual.

I was a baseball player with a decent arm in my high school days. Can still throw a baseball, football, etc. relatively well.

Yeah, you're probably right about the forehand. I just don't get it. It wobbles, it looks weird, it feels weird and unnatural. Maybe I should get some meat hooks and just launch them in the field like I'm throwing home or something.

I just can't grok this. Or backhand. Or disc golf in general.

 

[Countchunkula]

I think Woj might be onto something with the grip/orientation.

I've recently become convinced that bad alignment is the root of my backhand nose up issues. To get the disc to be at close to the right orientation at release, I pretty much need to do a bunch of things wrong. I had a decent throwing arm when I was younger and was a really strong skier, but that never translated at all to dg for me. I'm thinking now that is because when I did get the big motions right having bad alignment gave me a terrible result and I made the wrong adjustments.

Planning to actually film myself throwing with a variety of grips to see which have good orientation on release. Hoping that when I get that right, I'll have a better chance of building it back up to half way decent form.

/end drift
Sorry, went deeper into my issues than I intended. They are legion. For your FH, I wouldn't be surprised if the rise up and other issues are artifacts of making the wrong adjustments while trying to get nose down. If the disc isn't aligned right, you'll have to do funky things with the rest of the throw to get a fairly level throw. But obviously listen to SW and the other form experts and take my ramblings with a grain of salt.

 

[ChrisWoj]

I tried it out (video above). It felt awkward but stronger... seemed to be just as wobbly though.

Yeah, inconsistent, a few were nice, but for sure. I feel like something about the throws makes it feel like the end of your whip is closer to your wrist, and then from there you're shoving the disc with your fingertips.

Can you try to see what happens when you really focus on feeling the trailing edge of the disc pulling against the hand, you want to really feel the tip of the whip at the end there. Here's a question: as you pull through does it feel more like you're pushing the disc or like you're pulling the disc?

I think Woj might be onto something with the grip/orientation.

I've recently become convinced that bad alignment is the root of my backhand nose up issues. To get the disc to be at close to the right orientation at release, I pretty much need to do a bunch of things wrong. I had a decent throwing arm when I was younger and was a really strong skier, but that never translated at all to dg for me. I'm thinking now that is because when I did get the big motions right having bad alignment gave me a terrible result and I made the wrong adjustments.

Planning to actually film myself throwing with a variety of grips to see which have good orientation on release. Hoping that when I get that right, I'll have a better chance of building it back up to half way decent form.

/end drift
Sorry, went deeper into my issues than I intended. They are legion. For your FH, I wouldn't be surprised if the rise up and other issues are artifacts of making the wrong adjustments while trying to get nose down. If the disc isn't aligned right, you'll have to do funky things with the rest of the throw to get a fairly level throw. But obviously listen to SW and the other form experts and take my ramblings with a grain of salt.

This does bring to mind a point - for me, personally, the high release forehand is harder to dial in with my grip. I tend to be more of a knuckle-dragger as a forehand thrower, and even with a standstill I'm dropping my right hip (RHFH) and letting my motion come through for the hyzer release ideally. It feels a lot easier and more natural, though I definitely can sling accurate rips with the high release, I just gotta be practicing it more often.

bragging moment, just to shout about it: threw only 3 forehands yesterday, 2 executed for birdies, including a standstill low slight-hyzer-flip to turn Athena into a headwind through a late gap to about 25' deep of pin, pin was at 295 and a straight finish. Proud of that shot.

 

[Brodysseus]

I think Woj might be onto something with the grip/orientation.

I've recently become convinced that bad alignment is the root of my backhand nose up issues. To get the disc to be at close to the right orientation at release, I pretty much need to do a bunch of things wrong. I had a decent throwing arm when I was younger and was a really strong skier, but that never translated at all to dg for me. I'm thinking now that is because when I did get the big motions right having bad alignment gave me a terrible result and I made the wrong adjustments.

Planning to actually film myself throwing with a variety of grips to see which have good orientation on release. Hoping that when I get that right, I'll have a better chance of building it back up to half way decent form.

/end drift
Sorry, went deeper into my issues than I intended. They are legion. For your FH, I wouldn't be surprised if the rise up and other issues are artifacts of making the wrong adjustments while trying to get nose down. If the disc isn't aligned right, you'll have to do funky things with the rest of the throw to get a fairly level throw. But obviously listen to SW and the other form experts and take my ramblings with a grain of salt.

A lot of that does sound similar to me and my experience. I'm a left handed baseball hitter and could stick... nothing translated to RHBH. I was a left handed hockey player with a good shot and nothing translated there either. Have a good right throwing arm but never had a forehand.

Something is wrong with my alignment and form on a fundamental level. And after a decade+, it just feels like the bad habits are too ingrained for me to identify, let alone fix.

 

[Brodysseus]

Yeah, inconsistent, a few were nice, but for sure. I feel like something about the throws makes it feel like the end of your whip is closer to your wrist, and then from there you're shoving the disc with your fingertips.

Can you try to see what happens when you really focus on feeling the trailing edge of the disc pulling against the hand, you want to really feel the tip of the whip at the end there. Here's a question: as you pull through does it feel more like you're pushing the disc or like you're pulling the disc?

This does bring to mind a point - for me, personally, the high release forehand is harder to dial in with my grip. I tend to be more of a knuckle-dragger as a forehand thrower, and even with a standstill I'm dropping my right hip (RHFH) and letting my motion come through for the hyzer release ideally. It feels a lot easier and more natural, though I definitely can sling accurate rips with the high release, I just gotta be practicing it more often.

bragging moment, just to shout about it: threw only 3 forehands yesterday, 2 executed for birdies, including a standstill low slight-hyzer-flip to turn Athena into a headwind through a late gap to about 25' deep of pin, pin was at 295 and a straight finish. Proud of that shot.

I'm 100% pushing it. I have done the Hammer drill for years (all the way back in the DGR days with the fingers taped up with duct tape picture) and a disc has never felt like that for me, it has never felt heavier on the outside edge.

It literally feels like I put anti-spin on a disc.

 

[timothy42b]

I hesitate a bit to offer any advice, being one of the less accomplished throwers here. I've just started using forehand on the course the past couple of months after years of thinking it was beyond me.

But here's my mental image, feel free to ignore or discard.

There are two parts to a forehand throw. One is the weight transfer, arm spiral kinetic chain and delivery exactly like throwing a fast ball. The other is the clean release on plane at the end. Sure, they should be one continuous motion and you'll never throw 600 feet like Ryan Sheldon without both. But the little wrist flick at the end can go an amazing distance with little effort. That's probably the part Josh got right, although I think his method teaches elbow forward "dart throwing" if you're not careful.

So if the power throw isn't working for you yet, just throw the 8 - 12 inches before the hit, but do it cleanly. 200 feet without a wobble would save a lot of pars on my short course.

Oh, and yeah I did thousands of hammer pounds too, didn't help me either. There's a disconnect here but that's for another post.