15 times champion

[Cgkdisc]

The early disc golf champions were better all around disc throwers than today (because they practiced multiple disc events) and likely in better shape due to the running involved in a few other disc events including ultimate. I'm not sure our top bombers could throw the world record distances the guys in the 70s and 80s threw using the discs from that era but it would be interesting to see.

 

[Vonbeezy1]

The early disc golf champions were better all around disc throwers than today (because they practiced multiple disc events) and likely in better shape due to the running involved in a few other disc events including ultimate. I'm not sure our top bombers could throw the world record distances the guys in the 70s and 80s threw using the discs from that era but it would be interesting to see.

LOLOLOL

 

[kerplunk]

The early disc golf champions were better all around disc throwers than today (because they practiced multiple disc events) and likely in better shape due to the running involved in a few other disc events including ultimate. I'm not sure our top bombers could throw the world record distances the guys in the 70s and 80s threw using the discs from that era but it would be interesting to see.

LOLOLOL

Gotta agree with Beezy here, at least when it comes to distance. It seems like the early guys treated disc as an art, whereas the young guns throw distance as a science.

 

[lyleoross]

One statistic he gave, 30% of baby boomers think the sun revolves around the earth. Ouch!

Compared to the number of people who think it revolves around themselves, that's not bad.

FTFY

The fix was to replace people with Millennials.

I really know I should stay away from this, but the kids I meet, who think the sun revolves around them, were told that by their parents. Now I'm really gonna hang myself. I've coached in lower middle income neighborhoods, and fairly well to do neighborhoods, there's a marked difference.

 

[Cgkdisc]

You guys just don't know. Disc golfers today are mostly disc golfers with only some that have crossed over from ultimate and have some familiarity and competency in other disc sports. There are guys over 50 like Harvey Brandt and Conrad Damon, head of the Rules Committee that would still crush most of our top pros in discathon or speed golf. Even John Kirkland over age 70 and distance record holder in the 70s can out throw most people posting here with today's golf discs.

And I wasn't talking golf discs in my original post. I'm saying players of today would be hard pressed to beat these distance records with these discs.
1976 Dave Johnson USA - 125.57m - Wham-O 119g
1978 John Kirkland USA - 135.30m - Wham-O/DGA Night Flyer 40
1980 Dave Dunipace USA - 139.63m - Wham-O/DGA Midnight Flyer 41, 141g
I think Avery Jenkins and a few other top throwers tried to do it a few years ago in an exhibition near Santa Cruz a few years ago and they were impressed with what these old guys did when they were young and at their athletic peak.

My point being that the competition was still tough for its time when those early World championships were won against other top disc athletes, not just the specialized disc golfers of today.

 

[SonicGuy]

Gotta agree with Beezy here, at least when it comes to distance. It seems like the early guys treated disc as an art, whereas the young guns throw distance as a science.

Yeah, no. The early guys threw the snot out of those frisbees. The only science that helps out the modern guys is meteorology.

 

[DavidSauls]

The fix was to replace people with Millennials.

I really know I should stay away from this, but the kids I meet, who think the sun revolves around them, were told that by their parents. Now I'm really gonna hang myself. I've coached in lower middle income neighborhoods, and fairly well to do neighborhoods, there's a marked difference.

My post was, of course, just a throw-away joke.

I remember things Depression-era-raised parents said about the Boomer kids.

My suspicion is that it's true the kids are a mess. They always have been.

Though, oddly, I notice as I get older that my definition of "kids" keeps expanding. I'm hesitant to ask whether that says something about them.....or me.

 

[kerplunk]

You guys just don't know. Disc golfers today are mostly disc golfers with only some that have crossed over from ultimate and have some familiarity and competency in other disc sports. There are guys over 50 like Harvey Brandt and Conrad Damon, head of the Rules Committee that would still crush most of our top pros in discathon or speed golf. Even John Kirkland over age 70 and distance record holder in the 70s can out throw most people posting here with today's golf discs.

And I wasn't talking golf discs in my original post. I'm saying players of today would be hard pressed to beat these distance records with these discs.
1976 Dave Johnson USA - 125.57m - Wham-O 119g
1978 John Kirkland USA - 135.30m - Wham-O/DGA Night Flyer 40
1980 Dave Dunipace USA - 139.63m - Wham-O/DGA Midnight Flyer 41, 141g
I think Avery Jenkins and a few other top throwers tried to do it a few years ago in an exhibition near Santa Cruz a few years ago and they were impressed with what these old guys did when they were young and at their athletic peak.

My point being that the competition was still tough for its time when those early World championships were won against other top disc athletes, not just the specialized disc golfers of today.

I agree with everything except distance, and we are largely saying the same thing even in that respect. The top distance throwers aren't the best disc golfers, for the most part, but I think they have stood on the shoulders of giants and learned how to get just a little more velocity. Give Lizotte and Eagle a year to practice with Night Flyers, I bet they could beat the old distance records, but not by a lot.

One current guy I do think could keep up with the old schoolers in an all around competition is Big Jerm.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I agree with everything except distance, and we are largely saying the same thing even in that respect. The top distance throwers aren't the best disc golfers, for the most part, but I think they have stood on the shoulders of giants and learned how to get just a little more velocity. Give Lizotte and Eagle a year to practice with Night Flyers, I bet they could beat the old distance records, but not by a lot.

One current guy I do think could keep up with the old schoolers in an all around competition is Big Jerm.

Again, my point was that the competition was not weak in the early championship years. It's possible the total number of top level challengers was just a bit lower in the mid years than either the early years or the past 10 years as many of the all around discers had to move on to real jobs and the number of top "disc golf only" competitors was just starting to increase.

 

[kerplunk]

The early disc golf champions were better all around disc throwers than today (because they practiced multiple disc events) and likely in better shape due to the running involved in a few other disc events including ultimate. I'm not sure our top bombers could throw the world record distances the guys in the 70s and 80s threw using the discs from that era but it would be interesting to see.

You guys just don't know. Disc golfers today are mostly disc golfers with only some that have crossed over from ultimate and have some familiarity and competency in other disc sports. There are guys over 50 like Harvey Brandt and Conrad Damon, head of the Rules Committee that would still crush most of our top pros in discathon or speed golf. Even John Kirkland over age 70 and distance record holder in the 70s can out throw most people posting here with today's golf discs.

And I wasn't talking golf discs in my original post. I'm saying players of today would be hard pressed to beat these distance records with these discs.
1976 Dave Johnson USA - 125.57m - Wham-O 119g
1978 John Kirkland USA - 135.30m - Wham-O/DGA Night Flyer 40
1980 Dave Dunipace USA - 139.63m - Wham-O/DGA Midnight Flyer 41, 141g
I think Avery Jenkins and a few other top throwers tried to do it a few years ago in an exhibition near Santa Cruz a few years ago and they were impressed with what these old guys did when they were young and at their athletic peak.

My point being that the competition was still tough for its time when those early World championships were won against other top disc athletes, not just the specialized disc golfers of today.

Again, my point was that the competition was not weak in the early championship years. It's possible the total number of top level challengers was just a bit lower in the mid years than either the early years or the past 10 years as many of the all around discers had to move on to real jobs and the number of top "disc golf only" competitors was just starting to increase.

That may have been your point, but you specifically said in two posts that you are not sure if the current players could match the old distance records. Not trying to be a Richard, just pointing out that you were the one that brought up distance, so I was speaking to that point.

 

[kerplunk]

As long as we're off on tangents, would Climo have won so many championships under current rules where smoking is not allowed? When I first looked him up his webpage had one of his listed interests as "cigarette aficionado," which gave me a good chuckle.

 

[SonicGuy]

I'm taking the plunge; no way the current distance throwers beat out the old guys.

Lizotte says he throws 750 with perfect wind without crazy desert conditions. Sam Ferrans threw a Phenix 625'. Are you telling me that you hand Ferrans a destroyer he doesn't add that 125' with ease?

Or what about Aguilera throwing 550' with a freaking.Aero? Not saying Lizotte couldn't do that, but could he??

And then there is the fact that the more modern pre-desert guys smoked that 750' number with a teebird and a valk. In this SonicGuy's mind Sandstrom is still the record holder.

 

[air show]

Of all the longest throws I have eye witnessed... Climo, Avery, Markus Kallstrom, Simon, Big Jerm, McBeth, Wysocki, and Eagle... Big Jerm is the longest in competition and Simon in exibition. That's all I know.

 

[lyleoross]

My post was, of course, just a throw-away joke.

I remember things Depression-era-raised parents said about the Boomer kids.

My suspicion is that it's true the kids are a mess. They always have been.

Though, oddly, I notice as I get older that my definition of "kids" keeps expanding. I'm hesitant to ask whether that says something about them.....or me.

I knew that, and liked your post. Just felt a need to whine.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Just like Climo or Jordan will never be the greatest breastfeeders of all time. So let's downgrade their parenting.

False equivalency, you're taking something totally unrelated and nothing like I pointed out and pretending they're similar. They are not. If you're attempting to dispute my point - you've done absolutely nothing to dispute it.

 

[ChrisWoj]

There's a bigger pool now, but I wouldn't say 10x as many. Probably more than half of those 100,000 PDGA numbers, including my own, are not current.

Of course, how many of the 11,000 back then are current? If renewal rates have remained stable (per total historical members) the 10x could be accurate, if the 11K to 100K numbers are off.... Chuck? Know the renewal rate back then?

 

[ChrisWoj]

FTFY

It has as much validity as it did when the ancients said the same (referring generally to: the generations following the entrenched elders)

 

[ChrisWoj]

My post was, of course, just a throw-away joke.

I remember things Depression-era-raised parents said about the Boomer kids.

My suspicion is that it's true the kids are a mess. They always have been.

Though, oddly, I notice as I get older that my definition of "kids" keeps expanding. I'm hesitant to ask whether that says something about them.....or me.

It's been recorded at least since Socrates. To speak specifically to your generational reference I believe the term used was the "MeMe" or "Me First" Generation for the Boomers - yes?

 

[DavidSauls]

It's been recorded at least since Socrates. To speak specifically to your generational reference I believe the term used was the "MeMe" or "Me First" Generation for the Boomers - yes?

Could be. Some of the things elders said about the young baby boomers won't pass the moderators here, but some of the blame for how bad we turned out was pinned on our parents having given us everything we wanted. Things were handed to us that they had to work for, or do without. You know. The way the faults of later young generations would be blamed on their childhoods of participation trophies, or video games, or social media, or.....

Of course, being old now, I see how wrong our parents and grandparents were about us, and how right we are about the downfall of the current youth. I'm a bit surprised that today, 20-somethings and even 30-somethings are still kids, whereas I was an adult at 21.

 

[DavidSauls]

That's quite a digression. Well, to the subject of players of different eras.....

It's funny, but it seems that in sports where skill is objectively measured---like track---over time the players get better and push the records further and further. I'm sure some technology improvements help, but does anyone think today's runners, or swimmers, are slower than yesteryear's, only that decline is masked by better equipment?

In some other sports, though, the older players get, the better they were when they were young.

Among the changes are improvements in technique. Baseball, for example, has been around a long time, but they're still refining and fine-tuning technique; batting styles and pitching motions are different now than they were 40 years ago. It's even truer in a young sport like disc golf; for example, in KC's heyday and before, you didn't see a lot of players throwing forehand and backhand interchangeably.

It's an unsettleable argument, of course, whether today's players are better than those of 20 years ago. But between those factors, and that we're drawing from a much bigger pool of players so there's a lot more cream available to rise to the top, and the probability that we're seeing a more players start out in their teens where they can refine their game much earlier, and it would seem that the odds favor today's players. And, even more so, tomorrow's.

Which I don't think diminishes Climo's 12x a bit. He did it in the environment he found himself, and it's an astounding record of dominance and consistency over an extended period of time. Without a time machine, I'll settle for saying he was the greatest of his era, someone else can be the greatest of this era, and the next.