2014 United States Disc Golf Championship

[heartman]

This might've been discussed already at some point in the previous 44 pages, but:

Why did McBeth not throw leaving the chair in place, and then call a provisional and move the chair and take the shot ... and then put the chair back and then just sort everything out after the round?

 

[RKelly]

Rob,
sorry bud but you are dead wrong here. First no mistake was made as no call was given. this has been discussed at nausea. Second I have admitted my short comings multiple times. Lastly and most importantly I will repeat AGAIN that it was not the Marshalls place to make a call. Our capacity was to ASSIST players in making the call. This is plain and simple and until people like you realize it I will continue to post the truth.

If you had said no one pulled out a rule book then yes you would be correct. But I had a rule book and Burro had a rule book. Again time did not allow us to get to the rule book. 1 min. and 30 seconds approx. was the time allowed before Paul threw his shot.

Dave, you didn't read/ understand my post. I never said you or any of the officials made an " official ruling". There was discussion of "permanent part of the course". I didn't see anybody actually look in a rule book. If you guys did, I missed it and I'm sorry. I do believe 90 seconds is plenty of time for someone to look in the book instead of calling someone else and asking them for a ruling. And I said McBeth threw before he got any real ruling. And I do believe ( as many here seem to agree) that any thought of a spotter's chair being a permanent part of the course is just stupid. Again, you may be a nice guy. I know Bergie and Burro, they are also nice guys. You said you guys were there to assist, yet the other players were not asked to come over to make a ruling. All I saw was you guys talking about an incorrect rule, calling someone else about the situation and
McBeth getting impatient and throwing before any real ruling could be made. Mistakes were made be all.

 

[1978]

For the same reason Johne was agressive on 17. They both thought they had confidence to execute the shot that was before them regardless of the other options.

 

[Dave242]

This might've been discussed already at some point in the previous 44 pages, but:

Why did McBeth not throw leaving the chair in place, and then call a provisional and move the chair and take the shot ... and then put the chair back and then just sort everything out after the round?

yes- it was discussed a few posts back....by the Marshal involved (and doing the majority of the talking in the video):

I would have LOVED for Paul to throw a provisional and let the TD take as much time as needed afterwards to make the correct ruling. This would have made me warm and fuzzy inside for sure. but that did not happen

I did hear second hand that Paul may have thought that moving he chair even as a provisional could have incurred some sort of penalty. once again to be very clear I heard this from a secondary source and have no idea of its validity.

 

[threevok]

Could Johne, in the playoff, have gotten a bogey 5 on #18 to tie or did I look at it wrong? I guess like the rest of us, he didn't expect Will to miss his putt.

 

[juju]

I thought I saw Paul post that he was told by two marshals that he couldn't move it for a provisional during the incident and then another marshal told him he could have moved it after the round was over.

 

[heartman]

yes- it was discussed a few posts back....by the Marshal involved (and doing the majority of the talking in the video):

:thmbup:

why search when someone will do it for you

 

[notroman]

Could Johne, in the playoff, have gotten a bogey 5 on #18 to tie or did I look at it wrong? I guess like the rest of us, he didn't expect Will to miss his putt.

No. Will missed his putt for birdie 3, taking a 4. McBeth didn't go OB so he laid up for his 4 as well. JohnE went OB on his second drive, so his only hope was to throw in for a penalty 4.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Yep.

 

[JC17393]

Could Johne, in the playoff, have gotten a bogey 5 on #18 to tie or did I look at it wrong? I guess like the rest of us, he didn't expect Will to miss his putt.

In the playoff hole, Will and Paul took 4s. So once John went OB a second time, he was looking at no better than a 6 and more likely higher because his next shot (one that went unthrown) would have not been from a position where a hole-out was likely.

(John's shot sequence was drive, throw OB, penalty, throw OB, penalty, pick up)

 

[sidewinder22]

I don't think the chair really made a difference and that's probably why he just threw without waiting for a ruling. He was not going to throw a backhand from there with the slope and the tree. Maybe he would have thrown FH from a knee, but then you wouldn't be able to see as much and have a harder time ranging the distance.

 

[BgWvDave]

Dave, you didn't read/ understand my post. I never said you or any of the officials made an " official ruling". There was discussion of "permanent part of the course". I didn't see anybody actually look in a rule book. If you guys did, I missed it and I'm sorry. I do believe 90 seconds is plenty of time for someone to look in the book instead of calling someone else and asking them for a ruling. And I said McBeth threw before he got any real ruling. And I do believe ( as many here seem to agree) that any thought of a spotter's chair being a permanent part of the course is just stupid. Again, you may be a nice guy. I know Bergie and Burro, they are also nice guys. You said you guys were there to assist, yet the other players were not asked to come over to make a ruling. All I saw was you guys talking about an incorrect rule, calling someone else about the situation and
McBeth getting impatient and throwing before any real ruling could be made. Mistakes were made be all.

Rob, I understood your first post and I am pretty sure I understand you post here. we all know the cliché about opinons. I do not appreciate your insinuation that my discussion of the chair being part of the course was stupid. I will admit that I am no genius but I will gladly but my IQ up to yours. so I appreciate the kind sentiment. this is far from the man I thought you were. I have admitted once again at nausea that it was a very stressful situation. I did not act as fast as I would have liked and mistakes were made by many parties, but I do appreciate you posting your opinions of the situation after the fact in such a positive way. look forward to seeing you in Charlotte soon.

 

[Always Hyzer Lines]

In a normal tournament, what would a player gain by throwing a disc out of weight spec? Maybe I'm reading it wrong but who would want a 180 driver? It's like throwing a sewer lid.

 

[mashnut]

In a normal tournament, what would a player gain by throwing a disc out of weight spec? Maybe I'm reading it wrong but who would want a 180 driver? It's like throwing a sewer lid.

On a really windy day a very heavy disc would make the short game a lot easier, it just won't get tossed around like a normal weight disc would. 180 isn't going to make a real difference on a driver, but the line has to be somewhere.

 

[Van1]

I don't think the chair really made a difference and that's probably why he just threw without waiting for a ruling. He was not going to throw a backhand from there with the slope and the tree. Maybe he would have thrown FH from a knee, but then you wouldn't be able to see as much and have a harder time ranging the distance.

That's not how I saw it. He was off balance when he threw and it went out of bounds...

 

[Dave242]

for those who want to watch chairgate again it starts at 1:06:55 of this video (2014 USDGC--3rd Round Coverage (2nd Segment):
http://new.livestream.com/DGPlanetTV/events/3383247/videos/63853504

 

[bhadella]

It was almost 8 minutes between Paul's drive and his second shot. Seems like plenty of time to have gotten a understanding of the rule right. Seems shocking that the experienced players (JohnE, Patrick, Paul), experienced TDs/marshals and even Crazy couldn't come to a conclusion on it. From a shot selection stanpoint, I'm sure Paul would want to take it back. He wasn't going to reach the circle from there with the awkward stance and his forehand, I'm sure he wishes he had just laid up.

 

[grodney]

Reminds me of one of the first years I watched USDGC (2000, I think). One of the top players, I think Stokely, landed near a sleeve in the middle of #5 fairway (it's a sleeve for the Lakefront course, and the basket is removed for the USDGC).

He got to it and asked the other players and nobody in general "I get relief from that?". Everybody just sort-of shrugged and maybe a couple people nearby said "yes", so he took relief. It was hilarious and odd.

 

[Cgkdisc]

I think a Rules Q&A might be needed to clarify that moving spotter equipment is covered by rule 803.01A.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Reminds me of one of the first years I watched USDGC (2000, I think). One of the top players, I think Stokely, landed near a sleeve in the middle of #5 fairway (it's a sleeve for the Lakefront course, and the basket is removed for the USDGC).

He got to it and asked the other players and nobody in general "I get relief from that?". Everybody just sort-of shrugged and maybe a couple people nearby said "yes", so he took relief. It was hilarious and odd.

Solid object relief could be allowed under current rules in order to take a stance. Not sure if solid object was phrased that way back then.