2015 Pro Worlds full- Another registration fiasco?

[DavidSauls]

The real issue seems to be folks complaining that the top of the top aren't guaranteed a spot simply for being a top player, over all the others that also qualified for the event.

This is a bit of a mischaracterization of the issue---at least for some of us.

The real issue comes if the top players aren't given a reasonable opportunity for a spot, not a guarantee.

I, and apparently many others who feel a change is in order, in spite of the title of this thread, don't necessarily feel that this year is a problem. They had a sufficient window. The problem is in the future, with the assumption that the rush may get considerably worse.

Having been part of several events that fill in a flash, the pattern has been that they fill quickly, so next year everyone hurries to make sure they get in and the tournament fills in a day, so next year everyone really hurries and it fills in a couple of hours......to the point that it fills in minutes, not because demand increased that much, but because of the panic of possibly missing out. At which point, spots are being rationed based on who can be available and register quickest. Which may be fine for a B-tier, but perhaps not for an NT or World Championship. It looks like Worlds is heading in this direction.

 

[urwatuh8]

I think the main conclusion here is that disc golfers will complain about anything. Last year when they raised the points requirements for worlds (quite modestly), there was a long thread here on DGCR bemoaning the decision. Now there is a long thread complaining that there are too many people invited. Worlds spaces are a scarce resource -- somebody is going to end up not getting in and there is going to be whining.

 

[scarpfish]

Now there is a long thread complaining that there are too many people invited. Worlds spaces are a scarce resource -- somebody is going to end up not getting in and there is going to be whining.

Nobody is debating that. What's being debated is what means by which a person should get in and not get in. Being on the internet at the right 10 hour period shouldn't outweigh a year's worth of work.

 

[JC17393]

Nobody is debating that. What's being debated is what means by which a person should get in and not get in. Being on the internet at the right 10 hour period shouldn't outweigh a year's worth of work.

Bull ****. The year's worth of work is to get the invitation, not guarantee a spot. Every single invited player had FOUR MONTHS to plan to be on the internet in that 10 hour window. I'm sorry, but if you couldn't be bothered to make registering a priority knowing that spots are scarce, then you get what you deserve.

Bottom line is if you want to go, you do what you have to do to make it happen. You play to earn your invite. You get your ass on the registration list as soon as it opens. A 10-hour window is not unreasonable to find time for if you have enough time to plan. Unless there was a massive blackout or something, I'm not sure there's a viable excuse for missing out other than "I didn't prioritize well enough".

 

[The Happy Gilmore]

I would like to disagree with the statement in bold. The speed of someone's internet connection is not what prevented any players from getting registered for Pro or Am Worlds.

For Pro Worlds the Open division registration didn't sell out for over 10 hours. Registration was still open this morning at 7:00 Pacific time for ALL Pro divisions. Players that couldn't be up late could have gotten up a little early (Although 10:00 am East Coast is not terribly early)

It wasn't a frenzy and no one got shut out because of slow internet speed. Players were shut out because of their slow speed in deciding to register.

Looks like you got in... Would you be saying the same thing if you didn't get into pro worlds?

 

[TAFL]

So, from the name of it--Worlds--one would assume that this is for all the marbles, that the best of the best are assembled to duke it out for the world title...and, yet, some of those top players are on a waiting list to get in? What a joke!

Should change the name to Just Another Tournament, which is all it is.

Or, ya know, fix things so that the best of the best get invited and don't have to suffer a waiting list.

 

[JC17393]

Why does Worlds have to mean best of the best? Can't it simply be the culmination of a year's worth of events that brings players from all over the world to one location?

I'm still failing to understand why a tournament that has always been about "earn X points and you get invited regardless of skill level" has to suddenly prioritize the "best" players at the expense of everyone else who objectively met all the same criteria to get into the tournament. Why should a 1030 rated super pro get priority over 950 rated local pro when they each earned the requisite number of points to get invited.

If we want (yet another) tournament inviting the best of the best only, then someone should create it and run it.

 

[AndyJB]

So much entitlement going on around here...

 

[Jay Dub]

PDGA Professional Disc Golf World Championships

If this isn't a World Championship then take the word "Championships" out of the description. It being there might be one of the main reasons why people are expecting the best of the best to play in that tournament.

 

[The Happy Gilmore]

So much entitlement going on around here...

Yeah... Everyone here is so stupid to think that the best disc golfers shouldn't be given preference in the WORLD CHAMPIONSHIP.

 

[scarpfish]

Bull ****. The year's worth of work is to get the invitation, not guarantee a spot. Every single invited player had FOUR MONTHS to plan to be on the internet in that 10 hour window. I'm sorry, but if you couldn't be bothered to make registering a priority knowing that spots are scarce, then you get what you deserve.

Which essentially means being on the computer on the right time is more important than all that work. That's bull****. My proposal would make the work worthwhile and sitting at the computer at a precise moment unnecessary.

Bottom line is if you want to go, you do what you have to do to make it happen. You play to earn your invite. You get your ass on the registration list as soon as it opens. A 10-hour window is not unreasonable to find time for if you have enough time to plan. Unless there was a massive blackout or something, I'm not sure there's a viable excuse for missing out other than "I didn't prioritize well enough".

I can think of several.

Work shift you couldn't get out of (yes all you spoiled 9-5 M-F folks some folks in the world work evening and graveyard shifts). Family emergency you had to attend to. Server crashes because too many people are trying to get on at once. Your ISP or cell service picks the wrong time to have a brain fart.

The thing is, under the chaotic, first come first serve status quo we have, you don't know how long the window is going to be. It could just as easily be 10 days or 10 minutes as it could be 10 hours. Under my 'most points first' proposal, you know its going to be exactly 3-4 weeks, which should be plenty of time to work around the other matters in one's life. And players can register when its convenient for them.

The guy with 4000 points will have no problem getting in (provided he registers). The guy with 1500 points who just gets squeezed out will try a little better this year so he has more points for next year's Worlds. The guy with 752 points who just got enough for an invite can still register, but likely knows its best to not even bother. The most deserving win.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

This seems to me to be the key. The registration period was not that short. Try getting tickets to a big concert.

Seems like there should be another, higher championship based simply off of ratings with the rest of the field filled with the top of the regular championship.
Seems like an equitable compromise.
Ducking the flames!

:gross:

not even close to the same thing. PERFORMANCE BASED INVITATIONS ARE A NO BRAINER.

Disc golf is FAR from professional though.

 

[sjberry2017]

Why does Worlds have to mean best of the best? Can't it simply be the culmination of a year's worth of events that brings players from all over the world to one location?

I'm still failing to understand why a tournament that has always been about "earn X points and you get invited regardless of skill level" has to suddenly prioritize the "best" players at the expense of everyone else who objectively met all the same criteria to get into the tournament. Why should a 1030 rated super pro get priority over 950 rated local pro when they each earned the requisite number of points to get invited.

If we want (yet another) tournament inviting the best of the best only, then someone should create it and run it.

It's the World Championship. If you just wanted to call it Worlds and leave out the Championship, that would be fine. A Worlds where guys like Schusterick don't get in because they're on a waiting list is a bit like if the NCAA basketball tournament was by registration and a team like Wisconsin or Duke was left out because the Clemson Tigers or some other terrible by comparison basketball team registered first. Or if we want to make a PGA comparison, it's be like if Rory McIlroy or Jordan Speith could't compete in a tournament because some random guy who has no chance to win registered first.

And yes, the lower pros are needed to fund the purse and they also deserve to have the experience since they and am's form the basis of the PDGA membership, but if your rating is over 1000, then I would say you do deserve to have a spot in the World Championship tournament. Call it entitlement, call it whatever you want, the best of the best should be competing in a World Championship. Yes, there's the USDGC, but that isn't the World Championships, and it is different enough from Worlds to where I believe having Worlds hold spots from 1000+ pros wouldn't be a travesty.

 

[AndyJB]

:gross:

not even close to the same thing. PERFORMANCE BASED INVITATIONS ARE A NO BRAINER.

Disc golf is FAR from professional though.

You say that like it's a bad thing. I didn't start playing disc golf with dreams of being a millionaire sports star. I don't care how big the 'growth of disc golf' is, this GAME is super small potatoes. It's not supported by fans giving it their entertainment dollars. There is no TV coverage. There is no recognition. Even when it ends up on Sportscenter, it's treated as a complete joke with the announcers giggling and emphatically calling it "frolf"

If all these pros who are so butt-hurt about this want the PDGA to become more like the PGA, then start that fight. But you're not going to get anywhere since the PDGA runs on Amateur dollars, and the PGA runs on outside money.

Change happens if you want it. So make it happen. Until then, deal with it. Simple.

 

[JC17393]

It's the World Championship. If you just wanted to call it Worlds and leave out the Championship, that would be fine. A Worlds where guys like Schusterick don't get in because they're on a waiting list is a bit like if the NCAA basketball tournament was by registration and a team like Wisconsin or Duke was left out because the Clemson Tigers or some other terrible by comparison basketball team registered first. Or if we want to make a PGA comparison, it's be like if Rory McIlroy or Jordan Speith could't compete in a tournament because some random guy who has no chance to win registered first.

And yes, the lower pros are needed to fund the purse and they also deserve to have the experience since they and am's form the basis of the PDGA membership, but if your rating is over 1000, then I would say you do deserve to have a spot in the World Championship tournament. Call it entitlement, call it whatever you want, the best of the best should be competing in a World Championship. Yes, there's the USDGC, but that isn't the World Championships, and it is different enough from Worlds to where I believe having Worlds hold spots from 1000+ pros wouldn't be a travesty.

Everything you're saying comparing Worlds to other sports...Worlds has never been about that before. That's my point. Yes, by default, the "best" tend to show up because until recently, filling has never been an issue. But Worlds has always been as much about the gathering of the whole disc golf world (a convention, if you will) as it has been about the competition. If it were about it being the elite of the elite, then the 940 pros everyone is crowing about wouldn't be invited in the first place.

If the desire is to change that culture, then the WHOLE thing needs to be re-vamped from top to bottom, not just the registration criteria/format.

Personally, I'm all for breaking away the Open divisions (men and women) into their own event so they don't have to share facilities with other divisions and thus will have more capacity for players and no one gets shut out and the elite get in and blah blah blah. But that's clearly a couple years off at this point (since 2016 is already set in stone). In the meantime, it is what it is.

 

[optidiscic]

Everything you're saying comparing Worlds to other sports...Worlds has never been about that before. That's my point. Yes, by default, the "best" tend to show up because until recently, filling has never been an issue. But Worlds has always been as much about the gathering of the whole disc golf world (a convention, if you will) as it has been about the competition. If it were about it being the elite of the elite, then the 940 pros everyone is crowing about wouldn't be invited in the first place.

If the desire is to change that culture, then the WHOLE thing needs to be re-vamped from top to bottom, not just the registration criteria/format.

Personally, I'm all for breaking away the Open divisions (men and women) into their own event so they don't have to share facilities with other divisions and thus will have more capacity for players and no one gets shut out and the elite get in and blah blah blah. But that's clearly a couple years off at this point (since 2016 is already set in stone). In the meantime, it is what it is.

ahhh next year......Rusco is TD and handled 900 players at lat weeks GBO....would it feasible to do that for Worlds then we could serve both purposes...all the best get in and all the pilgrimaging disc golf fanatics can be part of it

Seems the logical explanation

 

[Aim For The Chains]

So much entitlement going on around here...

You say that like it's a bad thing. I didn't start playing disc golf with dreams of being a millionaire sports star. I don't care how big the 'growth of disc golf' is, this GAME is super small potatoes. It's not supported by fans giving it their entertainment dollars. There is no TV coverage. There is no recognition. Even when it ends up on Sportscenter, it's treated as a complete joke with the announcers giggling and emphatically calling it "frolf"

If all these pros who are so butt-hurt about this want the PDGA to become more like the PGA, then start that fight. But you're not going to get anywhere since the PDGA runs on Amateur dollars, and the PGA runs on outside money.

Change happens if you want it. So make it happen. Until then, deal with it. Simple.

I love it!!! Sure, disc golf isn't even a niche sport its a MIRCO sport in that sense hell even soccer hardly has a professional presense across the USA and the "team" we have now will be lucky to get a few thousand people to watch. The WNBA is a joke and lynx have multiple world titles but have adds on their shirts. I don't think you really get it, at all.

Maybe some of you "regular" disc golfers are the entitled ones eh?! From the Free courses to entry fees its just too funny.

 

[JC17393]

You say that like it's a bad thing. I didn't start playing disc golf with dreams of being a millionaire sports star. I don't care how big the 'growth of disc golf' is, this GAME is super small potatoes. It's not supported by fans giving it their entertainment dollars. There is no TV coverage. There is no recognition. Even when it ends up on Sportscenter, it's treated as a complete joke with the announcers giggling and emphatically calling it "frolf"

If all these pros who are so butt-hurt about this want the PDGA to become more like the PGA, then start that fight. But you're not going to get anywhere since the PDGA runs on Amateur dollars, and the PGA runs on outside money.

Change happens if you want it. So make it happen. Until then, deal with it. Simple.

Great point. Consider how the PGA Tour as we know it now got started.

It was organized by the PGA early on, much like our "tour" is now. Then things came to a head in the 60s when many professional players were upset with the number of "club pros" were in the field at the PGA Championships (their version of Worlds, essentially). The PGA to that point was an organization of not just "tour players" but also course professionals (guys who worked at courses) and their aims weren't solely dedicated to competitive play.

The tournament players broke off and formed their own organization (union, if you will), then negotiated with the PGA for their own autonomous division of the organization dedicated to competition and tour play. And that's what we have now...the PGA is an organization of golf professionals and the PGA Tour is an organization of professional golfers.

Maybe the time is coming for there to be a separate PDGA and PDGA Tour?

 

[ScottyLove]

Why such a fuss... our boy Joe Bishop is in the field. That's realy all that matters.

 

[araytx]

Why does Worlds have to mean best of the best? Can't it simply be the culmination of a year's worth of events that brings players from all over the world to one location?

I'm still failing to understand why a tournament that has always been about "earn X points and you get invited regardless of skill level" has to suddenly prioritize the "best" players at the expense of everyone else who objectively met all the same criteria to get into the tournament. Why should a 1030 rated super pro get priority over 950 rated local pro when they each earned the requisite number of points to get invited.

If we want (yet another) tournament inviting the best of the best only, then someone should create it and run it.

^^^^^ This.