2021 PDGA Board of Directors Elections

[autocrosscrx]

That's my point. Canadians were playing in parks and streets and gym class before 1995. And that's as far as it went, or would ever go.

Basketball, at some point in it's history, was no bigger than disc golf is today. It evolved. It didn't evolve solely on the backs of grass roots organizations. It needed big money and a larger presence in the public domain. Now more and more kids play and there's an insane amount of resources being poured into the game. So, you can laugh at the comparison all you want, but then your ignoring the point.

For whatever reason, disc golf gets sh*t on by it's players. I always hear people say, "It's throwing plastic in the woods", well guess what, playing baseball is "hitting a ball with a big stick". Why disc golfers are afraid of success and evolution is beyond me. Let it ride. It's gonna happen with or without you. If you read this forum from 2-3 years ago, everyone said that disc golf would never get to where it is today. They were SO sure of it. Well, it's probably surpassed those meager expectations. Time to accept it.

I'm not sure that is really accurate. A Canadian invented basketball. The first pro team was in Toronto. There are a bunch of Canadian players in the NBA currently, but that was the case before the Raptors, too. Their national team isn't particularly more competitive now than it was before the Raptors.

 

[DiscgolfStu]

I'm not sure that is really accurate. A Canadian invented basketball. The first pro team was in Toronto. There are a bunch of Canadian players in the NBA currently, but that was the case before the Raptors, too. Their national team isn't particularly more competitive now than it was before the Raptors.

There were 12 Canadians in the NBA prior to 2000. 4 of them played less than 10 games. since 2000 there has been over 30. The National team at least has a the potential to have NBA players now.

 

[ru4por]

There were 12 Canadians in the NBA prior to 2000. 4 of them played less than 10 games. since 2000 there has been over 30. The National team at least has a the potential to have NBA players now.

This is just apples and oranges. I disagree with your basketball premise, but it has no application to disc golf anyway, IMO. Most people have never heard of disc golf. They have never seen a basket, never held a disc, don't have any idea of the rules.... That is what is at issue, IMO. I don't believe there were many Canadians that has never heard of basketball before 1995.

I am not going to be convinced that a Bushnell national sponsorship is going to help me get three courses in the ground in my area.

I am afraid I am coming across like I do not want to see this kind of growth at the top. I do, I think the several hundred folk that directly benefit is great. I think the exposure and visibility is important. I don't think disc golf is ever going to be more than a fringe sport...behind sports like dart, bowling, cornhole, spikeball... And yes, I have been saying this for years. It is not a bad thing.

There are likely as many skateparks around as courses and that sport was getting a TON of exposure and sponsorship. Skateparks for the most part were still individuals in areas, hitting the street, drumming up local sponsorship dollars, to take to the local park system to lobby for a skatepark. Red Bull was not putting in a ton of parks with National X Games money.

Maybe I am wrong....shrug. I am not sure I hope I am. I am not sure "going big time" is the best way forward. Time will tell.

 

[biscoe]

I am not going to be convinced that a Bushnell national sponsorship is going to help me get three courses in the ground in my area.

I can state unequivocally that I have put 4 courses in the ground that would not have gone in without pro disc golf on YT.

 

[DiscgolfStu]

This is just apples and oranges. I disagree with your basketball premise, but it has no application to disc golf anyway, IMO. Most people have never heard of disc golf. They have never seen a basket, never held a disc, don't have any idea of the rules.... That is what is at issue, IMO.

What better way to change this than to have a communications expert from several different highly functioning, wildly successful sport organizations on the board of directors?

 

[_MTL_]

Wilbur Wallis
Will McKastle
David Schreff

That's my votes.

 

[Dcinmd]

What better way to change this than to have a communications expert from several different highly functioning, wildly successful sport organizations on the board of directors?

Is he going to focus on the PDGA?

Or the business that he is a CEO of ACTV8me? Or his board positions at Fotobom Media or Creative Projects Group?

He appear to just be collection board positions to pad his resume at this point in my view.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidschreff

If he was a PDGA member longer than 3 months I might consider him. It just looks like another business opportunity for him.

 

[Steve West]

What better way to change this than to have a communications expert from several different highly functioning, wildly successful sport organizations on the board of directors?

Hire, under contract, a communications expert from several different highly functioning, wildly successful sport organizations to do the specified job of changing this.

 

[roblee]

Is he going to focus on the PDGA?



He appear to just be collection board positions to pad his resume at this point in my view.

https://www.linkedin.com/in/davidschreff

I don't know who David Schreff is and so far no one on this forum can vouch for him. Most of us aren't insiders but the collective knowledge is extensive. The spin about his company from his LinkedIn site makes me dizzy. I see he is from Connecticut not California.

"CEO & Board Director
Sep 2018 - Present2 years 10 months
Beverly Hills, California
ACTV8me, a Beverly Hills California based marketing technology company, has built and deployed a sophisticated advertising attribution platform, that serves as a bridge between a brand's creative ads and it's consumer promotional expenditures. Our contextual ad serving platform enables hyper targeting, real time engagement and full funnel attribution."

ACTV8me's web site says nothing that helps me understand what they do. Is David real? How do we ask him anything? Does any PDGA entity know who he is? I think I'll ask.

 

[dehaas]

He's into digital marketing. My gut says if a company's website can't explicitly describe what they do then steer clear.

They must have some kind of secret sauce they approach businesses with, and promise a higher conversion from their marketing dollars if they purchase said secret sauce.

So in reality what this adds up to is:

Big companies eventually approach disc golf and PDGA. Secret sauce is involved in its secretive capacity and you'll start seeing targeted ads from companies sponsoring dg and his business continues to grow.

 

[dehaas]

Two words: Top down.

Yes, Grassroot is great. Bottom up is great.

However, David's greatest asset is his level of global networking. This alone is worth its weight in game development and financial support gold, for all players, across all levels.

Looking at his LinkedIn profile all of the positions held at big time companies were 20+ years ago. Everything since then has been these random marketing companies.

Over 15 years ago I interviewed with a company who described themselves as a marketing company. Got asked to come back for an opportunity to shadow and make sure it was a good fit…which entailed setting up a table inside a Hobby Lobby and pestering old ladies to donate money to Dare. Technically it wasn't a donation, they had some trinkets on the table that they were buying with proceeds going to Dare. The "marketing" company was getting a cut of the donation revenue as the middle man. Needless to say I told them no thanks.

I'm not saying those are the types of companies he's been associated with, but simply saying sports and entertainment marketing is a very very very loose term. Pre Covid we'd have people essentially going door to door selling these coupon packs for the local pro sports teams. You'd pay $40 or whatever and get 4 free tickets and discounts on additional tickets. Guess what…those guys selling the coupon packs worked for a "sports marketing" company.

To be fair, digital marketing is a bit different. At some point your data is being collected and sold. That's why the websites for any digital marketing company are so vague, they're trying to side step around what they really do.

So on paper you've got a candidate with a handful of very impressive companies on their resume but most recent experience is in collecting/selling data. No prior track record with anything disc golf related.

What's the incentive to get involved in disc golf all of a sudden?

 

[Cgkdisc]

Marketing may be the least needed activity for the PDGA Board to oversee now that we've seen how Covid supercharged the sport better than any marketing program. Retention becomes the broader high-level challenge for the Board to oversee. There are not enough courses, or the right scale of courses in many places to handle the influx of new players. Many will be discouraged from playing over time with constant delays and unruly behavior born of frustration with the speed of play.

The tournament registration process wasn't set up to "fairly" handle the crush of new tournament players. TDs are overwhelmed, criticized and are either undercompensated or haven't learned how to monetize their organizational efforts to even earn half the minimum wage for their team. If Board members don't have plans to help administrators address these issues, additional marketing efforts are eventually wasted.

 

[dehaas]

Given the recent growth of the sport due to Covid and the recent growth of the DGPT wouldn't it make sense to have a massive brainstorm session and hash out a lot of the big picture items, and align to those accordingly? I don't think there's anything wrong with changing focus as things grow and change (for better or worse).

As far as retention goes, what are the top two reasons people don't renew? I'd imagine the largest reason is they stop playing tournaments? Life happens and they just don't have the time commitment and fade away? I know that was my case, but continued renewing for a couple of years as a way to support something I enjoy but eventually stopped renewing. I'm not saying the PDGA doesn't do anything but pump out player ratings, they do, but how many people know/care?

You mentioned not enough courses in certain areas, I'm assuming the PDGA is actively looking at this? Number of courses based on membership concentration? Do they presently take that data and attempt to coordinate with local clubs to address big discrepancies?

As far as tournament registrations getting out of control, what about having events that cater directly towards one specific division? Similar to how larger A tiers may rotate between 2-3 courses, which differ based off of the division you play? So a TD might run back to back c tiers over a weekend, with one day being a couple divisions and the next day the others play?

With inventory being so thin across the board now would be a good opportunity for TD's to test out the trophy only model. Maybe split the difference, lower entry a little bit and start paying themselves for their time? A buddy of mine works full time but operates a race management company on the side. Depending on the event he'll do a shirt or finisher medal, take out operating expenses and the rest goes to him. Nobody shows up and complains because he makes a few bucks here and there. Demand is the highest it's ever been for events, surely if a TD goes trophy only it won't chase away every player within a couple hour radius.

An update to payout criteria might help move those changes along?

 

[odysseus]

Two words: Top down.

Yes, Grassroot is great. Bottom up is great.

However, David's greatest asset is his level of global networking. This alone is worth its weight in game development and financial support gold, for all players, across all levels.

I could not disagree more.

You are such a poor debater. Your blanket statement causes you to disagree with my argument that grassroot growth and bottom up growth is great for the game. Not sport. GAME.

Forget the DGPT Board. This is not about sport. This is about top down growth for the GAME. The PDGA Board is the only place David belongs because the PDGA is the only legitimate sanctioning and governing body for the GAME. DGPT has no leverage in this space and never will.

It's laughable that some completely discredit and refuse to consider another approach if it goes against THEIR NARRATIVE and THEIR VISION for the " Am side of the 'SPORT' ".

Typical.

 

[odysseus]

Looking at his LinkedIn profile all of the positions held at big time companies were 20+ years ago. Everything since then has been these random marketing companies.

Over 15 years ago I interviewed with a company who described themselves as a marketing company. Got asked to come back for an opportunity to shadow and make sure it was a good fit…which entailed setting up a table inside a Hobby Lobby and pestering old ladies to donate money to Dare. Technically it wasn't a donation, they had some trinkets on the table that they were buying with proceeds going to Dare. The "marketing" company was getting a cut of the donation revenue as the middle man. Needless to say I told them no thanks.

I'm not saying those are the types of companies he's been associated with, but simply saying sports and entertainment marketing is a very very very loose term. Pre Covid we'd have people essentially going door to door selling these coupon packs for the local pro sports teams. You'd pay $40 or whatever and get 4 free tickets and discounts on additional tickets. Guess what…those guys selling the coupon packs worked for a "sports marketing" company.

To be fair, digital marketing is a bit different. At some point your data is being collected and sold. That's why the websites for any digital marketing company are so vague, they're trying to side step around what they really do.

So on paper you've got a candidate with a handful of very impressive companies on their resume but most recent experience is in collecting/selling data. No prior track record with anything disc golf related.

What's the incentive to get involved in disc golf all of a sudden?

:doh::doh::doh:

Do you even know what Actv8me is? What his company does?

If you did, you would retract this entire post.

 

[odysseus]

You are such a poor debater. Your blanket statement causes you to disagree with my argument that grassroot growth and bottom up growth is great for the game. Not sport. GAME.

Forget the DGPT Board. This is not about sport. This is about top down growth for the GAME. The PDGA Board is the only place David belongs because the PDGA is the only legitimate sanctioning and governing body for the GAME. DGPT has no leverage in this space and never will.

It's laughable that some completely discredit and refuse to consider another approach if it goes against THEIR NARRATIVE and THEIR VISION for the " Am side of the 'SPORT' ".

Typical.

Oh. And if you couldn't pick up on it...

This is a contemporary allegory.

 

[ru4por]

You are such a poor debater. Your blanket statement causes you to disagree with my argument that grassroot growth and bottom up growth is great for the game. Not sport. GAME.

Forget the DGPT Board. This is not about sport. This is about top down growth for the GAME. The PDGA Board is the only place David belongs because the PDGA is the only legitimate sanctioning and governing body for the GAME. DGPT has no leverage in this space and never will.

It's laughable that some completely discredit and refuse to consider another approach if it goes against THEIR NARRATIVE and THEIR VISION for the " Am side of the 'SPORT' ".

Typical.

This is not a debate. I am not stumping for one candidate over another. I have never even stated if I would vote for or against any candidate. I simply stated my "contemporary opinion" on future growth of the sport (yup, again my opinion...based on the role the activity serves for me). If you had bothered to read the thread, you would have read my thoughts on top down vs bottom up growth.

Does my opinion fit my "narrative and vision"? Well, I would hope so. I have no real interest in the pro side of the sport. My work and sweat is solely directed toward AM growth, and will continue to be. It is MY PDGA, I will continue to work on and clean up courses, run a beginners league and help put on 7 or 8 tournaments a season. I will seek out and vote for candidates that I feel best help out myself, my club, my disc golf community and the sport in general. You are welcome to present an alternate opinion (which you utterly failed to do), but don't tell my what my vision or narrative should be.

Lastly, let us not forget that the PDGA represent a vastly amateur player base.

 

[odysseus]

This is not a debate. I am not stumping for one candidate over another. I have never even stated if I would vote for or against any candidate. I simply stated my "contemporary opinion" on future growth of the sport (yup, again my opinion...based on the role the activity serves for me). If you had bothered to read the thread, you would have read my thoughts on top down vs bottom up growth.

Does my opinion fit my "narrative and vision"? Well, I would hope so. I have no real interest in the pro side of the sport. My work and sweat is solely directed toward AM growth, and will continue to be. It is MY PDGA, I will continue to work on and clean up courses, run a beginners league and help put on 7 or 8 tournaments a season. I will seek out and vote for candidates that I feel best help out myself, my club, my disc golf community and the sport in general. You are welcome to present an alternate opinion (which you utterly failed to do), but don't tell my what my vision or narrative should be.

ROFL Comrade. Your usage of sport when describing your AM plight is touching, but misplaced.

Your extended response and final paragraph clearly show this is a debate. I don't need to reread this thread. One post is enough to see your inherent internal contradictions when formulating a thought, which delegitimizes any previous statement of yours.

Did I tell you what your vision or narrative should be? No. I didn't.

Go put words in someone else's mouth.

Oh, and nice post edit about the AM base. David will do great things for the AM base. He will also do wonders for global partner engagement. Do you know what that is? Don't lie.

 

[odysseus]

Disclaimer: I am not voting for David. Or any other candidate.

Merely here for pure, honest, disc golf debating.

Because isn't that what we do here at DGCR?!

Yes. It is.

And again, another contemporary allegory. And yes, I am indeed using the word contemporary correctly in context of this debate.

 

[Rastnav]

Disclaimer: I am not voting for David. Or any other candidate.

Merely here for pure, honest, disc golf debating.

Because isn't that what we do here at DGCR?!

Yes. It is.

And again, another contemporary allegory. And yes, I am indeed using the word contemporary correctly in context of this debate.

Well, you certainly aren't making any good arguments for your supposedly best candidate. "Do you know who he is?!" may play well on the silver screen, but is almost never a good look in actual dialogue.