400-500 ft FH drives? Really?

[runningDoc]

Destroyer from Innova Champion Discs ; Approved Date: Jun 26, 2007 ; Certification Number: 07-38 ; Max Weight: 175.1gr ; Diameter: 21.1cm ; Height: 1.4cm.

Agree with everything else you're saying, but Wraith was released in 2006 and Destroyer a year or two later.

edit: what Hamp said

Thank you for the correction! dang 1998 would've been tough to find that high speed driver that has turn but also late fade like a wraith/destroyer to even fathom that.

i know i have posted this before but i first hand witnessed Rodney Goad throw a max weight beat in Cyclone pin high on a 535' snaking tunnel shot at Henry Horton State Park circa 1996. best drive by a long shot i had ever personally seen and i'm guessing ever will.

I love me some Rodney Goad...

 

[ChrisWoj]

Agree with everything else you're saying, but Wraith was released in 2006 and Destroyer a year or two later.

edit: what Hamp said

Wraith was a 2005 release. 2006 was the premium plastic release - all Pro Wraiths in 2005. World Championships CFR discs came in mid-2006, and Star Wraiths by end of the Summer IIRC.

 

[2naphish]

Thank you for the correction! dang 1998 would've been tough to find that high speed driver that has turn but also late fade like a wraith/destroyer to even fathom that.



I love me some Rodney Goad...

as soon as i posted my previous post i searched videos of Rodney Goad and was watching an interview with him talking about throwing Cyclones and making references to COLA (Cedars of Lebanon A**holes) back in the day. a real trip down memory lane..it's always nice to be remembered 25+ years later even if you were a COLA.

 

[runningDoc]

as soon as i posted my previous post i searched videos of Rodney Goad and was watching an interview with him talking about throwing Cyclones and making references to COLA (Cedars of Lebanon A**holes) back in the day. a real trip down memory lane..it's always nice to be remembered 25+ years later even if you were a COLA.

when i lived in nashville i loved playing rounds with rodney goad.

the thing with rodney is his overall game is so good i'll forget about his massive sidearm sometimes he doesn't need to throw it and dominate a tourney/round just with his backhand and putting and then he'll bust out a flex 375ft uphill sidearm though tight gaps that would only allow a flex forehand that needs 400+ft of power even with a full head of grey hair and mustache and i'll be thinking "dang i didn't even think that was possible".

i think i've seen him hit around 5 aces playing in rounds with him and way more than that playing in leagues/tourneys where i had to make sure i had $5 bucks in me if he was playing.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

Thank you for the correction! dang 1998 would've been tough to find that high speed driver that has turn but also late fade like a wraith/destroyer to even fathom that.

Teebirds, Banshees, and XL's were state of the art when I was first getting serious.

 

[2naphish]

Teebirds, Banshees, and XL's were state of the art when I was first getting serious.

Gazelle and Ram for me. i was serious before, i just didn't have any good discs.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

Gazelle and Ram for me. i was serious before, i just didn't have any good discs.

Loved those both as well.

 

[Countchunkula]

Wraith was a 2005 release. 2006 was the premium plastic release - all Pro Wraiths in 2005. World Championships CFR discs came in mid-2006, and Star Wraiths by end of the Summer IIRC.

Thanks for the correction, Chris. I had no idea Pro was the first release. I was under the impression that the Augusta Wraiths were effectively the "first run". The Wraith must have been one of the last Innova distance drivers with a first run in something other than star or champ, I would think.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Teebirds, Banshees, and XL's were state of the art when I was first getting serious.

I rather like where I started... I got to enjoy the pre-Wraith world for about six months.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Thanks for the correction, Chris. I had no idea Pro was the first release. I was under the impression that the Augusta Wraiths were effectively the "first run". The Wraith must have been one of the last Innova distance drivers with a first run in something other than star or champ, I would think.

I wannnnna say you're spot on about that. Looking at the list - I think its a question of whether the Road Runner was star/champ or pro first run. Because I am 99% sure the TeeRex was Star, I remember the Star TeeRex with the big first run stamp being a big "thing" at BG Ams that year.

 

[foxdawg10]

innova destroyer came out in 1998 right? wraith before that?

i bet you would've thrown just as far but it was just a different game back then.

similar to modern nba where even centers shoot threes more than 4 times a game and more importantly all players even non shooters are expected to shoot open three point shots because of simple math (3pt shot made is worth more than a far 2pt shot near or on the three point line).

nowadays it's kind of a no brainer to throw a hyzer backhand or sidearm if the hyzer line is there and you if have the sidearm/backhand distance to get there. it's the best shot to throw because of the natural spin and fade.

what's interesting to me is now the game has evolved to the point where sometimes the sidearm turnover or straight shot is the best option and players are throwing that sidearm with normal stable midrange and even putters like eagle (before getting injured) sidearming a md3 (normal midrange) just like a touchy climo backhand back in the day.

in theory that sidearm shot was always there it just took the last 7 years to see it in the pro game widely accepted/utilized

Valkyrie was approved in August 2000, and was the bomber of choice (@ 9,4,-2,2) for players in our neck of the woods in Western New York, at least until I retired from the game for the first time in 2002. Until then my best bet for distance was a beat in KC Pro Eagle. I used to cycle 3-4 Eagles in my bag for different types of throws.

 

[runningDoc]

Valkyrie was approved in August 2000, and was the bomber of choice (@ 9,4,-2,2) for players in our neck of the woods in Western New York, at least until I retired from the game for the first time in 2002. Until then my best bet for distance was a beat in KC Pro Eagle. I used to cycle 3-4 Eagles in my bag for different types of throws.

nice man! there's video below where Logan Bowers is sidearming a valk 300+ on a tight wooded line. but i guess he was using one of those fire-valkyrie that had an abmormally flat top and was very overstable producing that magical turn and then late fade as kind of a prototype long distance driver of modern times.

I think the original post is a little outdated now with the proliferation of disc golf coverage theres TONS of examples of 400+ and even 500 foot sidearms on youtube on actual golf lines. But the fact that the OP made the post is true.. people being able to sidearm that far was kind of a myth that wasn't really on youtube and you had to see it in person to believe it.

the new distance driver technology where you have high speed drivers in premium plastic with adequate amounts of turn and then late fade is kind of the great equalizer in both backhand and sidearm distance.

i do kind of want to swing the discussion to that huge hole in past games (lets say pre 2014 where you did see ricky and paul mcbeth throw lots of longer sidearms during the portland world championship) of past pros not really utilizing the sidearm drive or upshot game.

Again things like 300-400ft drives are way harder to do with sidearms and older speed 7 and under stuff but thats not to say it wasn't possible. I personally didn't think it was possible until i saw it with my own eyes. sure I saw some sidearm predominate players back in the CT/MA/NY scene when i started who could crush firebirds like 400ft but it wasn't until i got moved to nasvhille and started seeing those middle tennessee players doing things like 300-375ft sidearms with rhynos and pigs or normal midranges (like with nate long sidearming 350ft with a prodigy m4 on straight lines through tight woods) that i saw that it was physically possible!

i can't even throw 375-400 backhand regularly, and maybe barely 300+ sidearm but after playing rounds with telly/rodney I started incorporating it into my game where I'm not afraid to throw a flat top KC pro roc sidearm 250ft on a straight shot or anhyzer line. Or even sidearm my normal DX aviars on 150 hyzers or through the woods.

there's a guy in Nashville Telly Ryan Bretell whos now millenium sponsored that hits 500ft sidearm shots.

here's an actual 500ft sidearm on a golf line (where it needed to hyzerflip to s curve around brush/trees).

https://youtu.be/lXYG7IyL80M?t=1142

if you go through his other shots though you'll see he throws slow putter/utility discs like dx/pro pigs and rhynos far too. and I mean he can throw 375ft holes and park them using baseline plastic pigs/rhynos!

here's telly throwing a 300ft tunnel shot with a dx pig:

https://youtu.be/lXYG7IyL80M?t=963


if you notice Logan Bowers is also on this card and he's another sidearm bomber (along with backhand too). throwing the same hole with a sidearm fairway driver.

here's telly throwing what is probably a 400ft power sidearm on an extremely uphill wooded 495ft par 4 and having a jump putt eagle at it.

another pig sidearm through a hole that is slightly uphill tight gap and plays around 300ft.

https://youtu.be/lXYG7IyL80M?t=1384

420ft smooth controlled destroyer sidearm on an uphill 725ft windy treacherous (ob) par 4:

https://youtu.be/lXYG7IyL80M?t=305

I've played a lot of rounds with Telly and its weird because his sidearm is probably the smoothest one I've ever seen. It makes sense because he can CRUSH putters sidearm (again he can sling a pig/rhyno 375ft) on long golf lines and when he throws they look like distance drivers in flight/speed. its just super smooth and looks effortless when he bombs sidearm. often times just one step and throw





nashville also has a guy who can crush tomahawks and thumbers far too. like over 500ft into 600ft territory distance... here's him thowing 486ft during a pdga distance competition in distance killing bad wind conditions:

https://twitter.com/PDGA/status/752168950948061184

one of the first rounds I played after moving to nasvhille 3 years ago was a casual winter round with Rodney Goad, Nate Long, and Telly Bretell. I didn't know anyone and just joined up with them on hole one at a local course (Seven Oaks).

Things I saw to my quiet disbelief:

Nate Long (prodigy sponsored doesn't play DG anymore but has a game similar to big jerm): sidearming a prodigy m4 on a 370ft tunnel shot.

Rodney Goad hitting cage/chains on three holes off drives with his blue gator and firebird sidearms. He seems to ace once a week.

Telly parking a 375ft hole with a dx rhyno flick where I needed a full back handed power throw a beat up champ tern to even get a long putt at it. When I asked what he threw and Telly said "a rhyno" i thought he was joking (because it flew like a 13speed driver out of his hand).

when jomez filmed that mini 9 hole tournament and had Telly and Logan on it I was so happy that there was going to be some proof of dudes sidearming things like rhynos and pigs 300+ feet on touchy tight lines just like old school barry shultz or climo would do with a KC pro roc on backhand. i finally had proof to my buddies back east that these guys can do what I was saying and it wasn't just a myth.

eventually when ricky on his first dynamic disc sponsorship run started flicking harps 350+ on touch lines and eagle doing the same with a MD3 I was psyched that it was finally seeping into pro game for good. now its no big deal and part of the game... hell even paul mcbeth started slicing up the course with 300+ foot touch zone flicks.

i'm just happy that the game is still evolving and you can really see the major delineation/shifts into what era the game is in.

the climo/shultz era of impossibly good touch shots and power with slower discs mostly in backhand with the slower plastic

the mcbeth/ricky era of impossibly good touch shots with power with newer drivers and ability to hit 400+ with sidearm drives.

the mcbeth/ricky/nate sexton/germ/eagle/barsby etc who now have full midrange sidearm + backhand drives with impossibly good touch and sometimes 400-500ft of power sidearm and backhand.

and then now you also have pros who still throw 90+% backhand but are savvy enough to still win championships.

the new technology with discs like destroyers/wraith and terns are kind of a great equalizer now... my older brother got into disc golf over the pandemic and just immediately started sidearming and backhanding 350+ft and also started sidearming things like putters and mids 250ft within months and he was in his late 40's (great disc golf sports pre background being a competitive tennis player and 80's professional skateboarder) because thats what he saw on the local courses and on youtube... he saw thats what regular pros can do now and it was possible right off the bat..

 

[Spectacledbear]

When will the day come where a forehand dominant player will dominate the field. If Ryan Sheldon can throw 600 +, it should be possible.

 

[Nick Pacific]

When will the day come where a forehand dominant player will dominate the field. If Ryan Sheldon can throw 600 +, it should be possible.

Ricky was always a forehand dominant player and really only became a 50/50 guy probably around 2015ish....he's more backhand dominant player now off the tee but I think that's due to the ever increasing distance on the courses over the past decade. To crank out those 450+ foot drives as much as an every week touring pro has to one really needs to rely on a backhand to lesson the stress on the elbow. I think if all the courses were still short, old school par 3 courses he'd be throwing a lot more forehands than he does now.

 

[BillFleming]

When will the day come where a forehand dominant player will dominate the field. If Ryan Sheldon can throw 600 +, it should be possible.

I don't think it will happen. Forehands (and I'm forehand dominant) are more likely to cause shoulder and elbow injury than backhand throws. Look at Uli, Simon and Eagle having to take time off due to injuries from forehands. Yes, I know Eagle's was due to trying a 360 forehand shot and it not going well. And Simon's was most likely due to overuse during a VLOG he was doing (he even admitted as much...said he had thrown for over 2 hours non-stop). Uli did the same thing....he was throwing a bunch of shots on one hole and ended up hurting his elbow....just not as bad as Simon or Eagle. But all three have had to stop doing forehands while they recovered.

Like Simon, I wear a compression sleeve on my throwing arm to help reduce pain when throwing forehands. When I throw bad backhand, my disc just goes offline or something else....when I throw bad forehand my elbow, shoulder, or both ache.

So, pain and distance, I don't see a forehand player becoming dominant on the tour - at least not for long.