A quandary into the realm of the overstable control driver

[BuiltTooLong]

If you are used to throwing the true rock hard FAF the new flat topped ones will just be a disappointment. When in the woods I swear the FAF just BUST through branches like no other disc.

 

[Moose33]

Yes they do that for sure, and do FH rollers like they have 4 wheel drive.

 

[chevis]

i'm right there w/ya moose. nothing is quite like a good faf fb. throw and know. no surprises if the angle is slightly off, no extra glide to have it sail away. i've got 3, and always looking for another at a good price. let me know if the flattening of a new one works

 

[DiscDraft]

I've seen plenty of flat star firebirds - not perfectly flat, more like the 2014s you mentioned with a bit of shoulder. They start out just like the 2014s, but I haven't thrown enough overhands to tell you how they beat in. It is working so far in that spot.

 

[DiscDraft]

Regarding flattening:

I have tried it recently with a teebird 3 that wasn't 3 enough. It made the disc a bit more understable, but the feel is great. I would assume there is no consistent outcome when flattening a disc under the umbrella of every disc, but maybe an OS disc will only become more OS when flattening?? I don't know, but I would be glad to hear your outcome if you do decide to do it. Admittedly, I have had similar thoughts regarding specifically flattening production FBs.

 

[ThrowBot]

So here is the quandary; to seek the rare "good Firebirds" or do I settle for a good, perhaps more consistent Ahti or maybe even Fireball?

Seek the good Firebirds; there is no adequate substitute.

I would humbly recommend the Color Glow Champ FB's that they are making currently for event & club custom stamp runs (CFR, TFR, etc.)

Those can be factory flat-topped for $1 per disc. They are MONEY. We got a run made last year, and within a few months I got an ace with one.

The plastic feels great in the hand: good grip, slightly bendy but not too much. They are kind of opaque, and the pink CG is the very easiest to see in any conditions: all seasons, even at night!

 

[GripEnemy]

i'm right there w/ya moose. nothing is quite like a good faf fb. throw and know. no surprises if the angle is slightly off, no extra glide to have it sail away. i've got 3, and always looking for another at a good price. let me know if the flattening of a new one works

Regarding flattening: I have tried it recently with a teebird 3 that wasn't 3 enough. It made the disc a bit more understable, but the feel is great. I would assume there is no consistent outcome when flattening a disc under the umbrella of every disc, but maybe an OS disc will only become more OS when flattening?? I don't know, but I would be glad to hear your outcome if you do decide to do it. Admittedly, I have had similar thoughts regarding specifically flattening production FBs.

I owe it to this thread and the Firebird mega to ACTUALLY film the before/process/outcome. I have 1 DX, 1 Pro, 1 Star, 1 Luster, 1 Champ Glow, 1 Des Fire - Bird Champ, and 1 recent run 12x (flight numbers) Champ that are all not quite flat. Luckily I'm off work tomorrow...lets see if I can't prove myself correct.

Side note, I've flattened over 60 discs easily over the years. Just sayin'

 

[pjhayes7]

I owe it to this thread and the Firebird mega to ACTUALLY film the before/process/outcome. I have 1 DX, 1 Pro, 1 Star, 1 Luster, 1 Champ Glow, 1 Des Fire - Bird Champ, and 1 recent run 12x (flight numbers) Champ that are all not quite flat. Luckily I'm off work tomorrow...lets see if I can't prove myself correct.

Side note, I've flattened over 60 discs easily over the years. Just sayin'

This would be helpful. I personally only flatten for the hand feel, and don't really expect any change in the flight. Not saying it isn't possible to do, just that it might be more trouble than it is worth.

 

[GripEnemy]

This would be helpful. I personally only flatten for the hand feel, and don't really expect any change in the flight. Not saying it isn't possible to do, just that it might be more trouble than it is worth.

I've never in my life flattened for more overstability. I've only done it for hand feel.

My point was Moose should be able to find a disc of similar or equal stability of which he wants, and to adjust the hand feel manually.

 

[pjhayes7]

I've never in my life flattened for more overstability. I've only done it for hand feel.

My point was Moose should be able to find a disc of similar or equal stability of which he wants, and to adjust the hand feel manually.

Sorry, I did not mean that to sound like I was saying you do that. It was more of just a comment in general about flattening and what others should expect from it. Some people think you can make an FAF Firebird and I wanted to make it clear to them that you cannot. Although you can make one very flat (not sure if as flat as an FAF), the disc is never going to gain all of that stability that a true FAF has, no matter what you do to it.

 

[DanJon]

Seek the good Firebirds; there is no adequate substitute.

I would humbly recommend the Color Glow Champ FB's that they are making currently for event & club custom stamp runs (CFR, TFR, etc.)

Those can be factory flat-topped for $1 per disc. They are MONEY. We got a run made last year, and within a few months I got an ace with one.

The plastic feels great in the hand: good grip, slightly bendy but not too much. They are kind of opaque, and the pink CG is the very easiest to see in any conditions: all seasons, even at night!

This is the best option honestly.

The flat top glow CFR FB's are super beef and usually on the stiffer side.

 

[zendragon]

Idk, I mostly switched from other brands to MVP for consistency in mold and feel in the hand. I never clicked with the Firebird, but I had a similar opinion of the XXX. It was perfect in the hand for FH for me, but when I lost my Opto and got a replacement, it just wasn't the same. While the Resistor feels different, I've gotten used to it, and it flies a very similar line. And I don't have to worry if I lose it that my replacement will be completely different.

 

[BrotherDave]

Sounds like my issue with finding flat Banshees. At least with Firebirds they run it a lot so you don't have to wait forever for a bad run of Firebirds to leave the shelves. I gotta sit and watch the domey, plus-rimmed Banshees collect dust and I'm sure as hell not getting a color glow CFR run made.

 

[ThrowaEnvy]

I used to seek out FAF Firebirds I wonder what I have in my stash... mine are probably 170 or less.

 

[Moose33]

I try to find 172+ but if it's as low as 165 and true FAF they still fly amazing.

I've gotten some of the slightly domey ones that are as heavy as 178 and not legal and still don't fly as good as almost any FAF would.

 

[ThrowBot]

I've never in my life flattened for more overstability. I've only done it for hand feel.

My point was Moose should be able to find a disc of similar or equal stability of which he wants, and to adjust the hand feel manually.

Flat topping will change flight properties, but not always the way you think. All other things being equal, more dome should give you more HST and more LSF. A flatter top should be more truly stable, with less turn and less fade. But, most importantly, it's all still dependent on PLH and nose angle.

The true FAF/Board Flat FB's that are entirely flat on top, including the top of the wing, have SUPER high parting lines. Even if you domed them out, they still would not flip in anything less than hurricane force winds. So all you're left with is the dumpy fade.

Can't argue with the improved hand feel of flat tops, especially for BH in my opinion. That's why I love love love FT Rocs.

 

[dorseymatt]

My advice would be to find some readily-available, non-collectors-edition Firebirds, buy a few, and use them until you break the feeling that you need a particular run. If you need an absolutely ridiculously overstable Firebird for forehand rollers, or whatever, by all means, find one, but you don't need to go hunting for rare ones or pay a premium for those. Your normal, run of the mill champ FB will be just fine for 98% of shots.
If you are turning over ANY firebird (other than a DX one) to the point that it doesn't fight back, you may want to invest a little time in forehanding some neutral discs for a while to dial in your technique.

 

[elmexdela]

flatties all day

i have the luxury of living kinda close to gggt so if i like a certain disc i can usually get a handful or a sleeve of same ish run (if i want but i rarely want but sometimes do)

it becomes such a chore and time and money type scavenger hunt and specially with the dg community throwing relatively you cant count on others findings with a certain disc

or just settle for "good enough"

 

[DiscinFiend]

Try out a Sexton or Luster Firebird. Both are (in general) flat. My Luster Firebirds are very beefy. I don't know if you've thrown any Luster discs. It sounds like you would like the pearly plastic. If the Luster is to much beef for what you're looking for, get a Sexton.

 

[GripEnemy]

I filmed but didn't edit. I only have one Luster but agreed it's beefy and might be up Moose's alley.