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Acorn Park, Roseville MN

SonicGuy

Banned
Joined
Oct 7, 2014
Messages
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I just played the new layout yesterday and I want to start a frank discussion about the re-design. Reviews are closed on the new layout (probably a good thing to do when changing a long standing course). Let's just say that reception has been trending negative from those i associate with.

I know that Chuck Kennedy is a frequent poster here and is responsible for the design. I would appreciate it if he could chime in and let us know about the circumstances that lead to his design decisions. I would also like to hear from those that like the new layout and why they do.
 
Ive heard much different as to the good changes. The course needed work no matter how you see it the piece of land was deteriorating.

Cant wait to get out there and see what has been done. I am sure none of it was without many hours of consideration and thoughtfulness with a specific purpose to please all involved.
 
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Rumor mill included trying to improve the flow so there were less issues between players and walkers, safety was a growing concern, and one of the neighbors was ready to move and had an agreement with the city that eventually the hole that was essentially in his backyard had to move.

I am planning on playing it tomorrow, so I will have a better idea of how it actually plays, but I went on several walk-throughs when it was just being imagined. Back then the idea was to better use the land's natural elements more, like water hazards, more time in the woods, and elevation. The thing with Acorn was that most holes only had a singular line and was definitely designed back in the day when most players threw exclusively right-handed back hand.

While everyone has an idea of what a perfect course would look like, most of the responses I have seen so far have been positive, especially those who remember an even older Acorn layout and the last incarnation. They know what they can and cannot have to work with in a city park. It is not like BRP, Vision Quest, or some of the more out-lying suburbs where the land is fresher, there are more trees that can be played around and or removed, and less other activities on the same plot of land.

Right now the plan is to bring my camcorder and a friend and I will be teeing off around 9am. We will see if we can get some good footage throwing.
 
I started playing Acorn in 1990. I remember the first redesign very well. I am excited to see your opinion of the new layout.
 
I hope to play this soon as well. I've played Acorn a half dozen times, and there weren't a lot of things that made me want to go back and try something else. I just remember either hitting the right line or missing, but not a lot of decision making. I've heard mostly positive due to Facebook thus far. Also will have to keep in mind that the new wooded holes are probably still rough cut and will take some years to clean up the frayed edges. Hope it's enjoyable because it's so nice having a (free 18) course in the city.
 
I have been playing at Acorn park since I first started playing disc golf (19-20 years ago) and love the new design of the course. It offers holes that challenge each shot type and the work done has been appreciated. I was lucky to get out there and play it four times last weekend and here are my thoughts on the course and the negativity.

I think the main concern coming form the camp of those who don't like the layout is 1) the amount of short holes 2) the relative ease of some of the new holes and 3) the amount of brush on the ground. To the first two points I counter with; wait till grows in. This course design is great that it gives you a handful of par 4's through the woods and then also lets you test your putter and mid control off the tee. Once it grows in the gaps we will have to hit will get harder and harder! To the third point, they just finished the course! It is goin to take weeks of work to clean up each fairway and for the bushes and trees to grow back in.

I for one appreciate the amount of buck thorn they removed from that piece of land. Acorn has always been one of my favorite courses to play, but the buck thorn made it un-enjoyable.

The course redesign also fixes the issue of intruding on private property with shanked discs. I heard the neighbors were not too pleased with some of the old holes and this greatly improves that.

the new teepads are immaculate, the design is fun and I think it will only get better as it grows in. I think this course is one both new and old players can enjoy for an afternoon. The new hole 17 is now one of my favorite shots to throw in the twin cities, along with the "double swamp" hole on 7.
 
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3o1Hn0Zl.jpg


17 guarded pin (pink basket)
 
I played it and enjoyed it. I miss some of the old holes but appreciate some of the new ones. Water is much more in play which I like.

It's nice that there are two tee pads on most holes. I had 4 kids with me ages 7 - 12. They played doubles from the shorts and that was appropriate.

I played from the long tees and appreciated the new challenges and risk-rewards. There isn't a lot of "get lucky with the wrong line" from the longs and that is how it should be.
 
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The baskets are Rose-colored. Not pink, Rose. As in 'Rose'ville.

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I am glad to hear people like it. I came away from my round with a lot of nasty emotions and wanted to let them simmer and hear positives before passing judgement. So now let me pass judgement :)

Without going through hole by hole I think the redesign was a neutral change to the park, and thus a waste of time and money. The front 9 had some interesting hole changes, but every one had some obvious features that would have been significantly better if designed differently. The back 9 was a mess; short unnatural holes that play into each other in weird places.

The really striking thing about the redesign is the generally poor quality of the work completed. Tee boxes pointing askew, placed below grade to encourage flooding and erosion. Concrete footings completely exposed on tee signs. The course was run down and in desperate need of a band aid, and it still feels run down. People talk about the course "breaking in", but at that point it will be the same exact problem we had before.

The park used to feel like the old school course it was. Now it feels like a church course where they took a budget and crammed holes into not-enough land using poor design choices. If this design was the best they could do with Acorn, I almost wish they would have pulled the whole thing and used the money for a sustainable, actually good course somewhere else.

This is my opinion today, which has mellowed significantly since the weekend.
 
I want to take everything in with a grain of salt because I understand the need to redesign versus closing it down completely. The west side of the metro is in serious need of 18 hole courses, especially since our only options are Bryant, Crown, HSSA, and Elm Creek. Bryant is great, but like HSSA is more southern than western, making it somewhat of a drive for those of us who live in the northwest suburbs (look at a Twin Cities map, the NW is the only corner of the four that does not have numerous 18 hole courses). It also does not help that it is open maybe 5 to 6 months of the year. Crown, like Bryant, is also a considerable drive. Elm Creek just does not feel like a legitimate course with so many 400+ holes that play essentially the same. It has four or five competitive holes and that is it. We really needed a competitive Acorn.

So as much as I understand that an 18 is better than a 9 or nothing, at best I give the improvements a 6 or 6.5 out of 10. I for one have no current complaints with the tees or signage because they are definitely an improvement. They have better footing and makes the course look more legitimate (versus a spray painted line on the walking path).

Holes 2-4 are still very fresh and could stand (for better or worse) to lose a tree or two to make the fairways or secondary lines fairer. Right now there are plenty of tight singular windows on numerous holes. Yet I really enjoyed everything from Holes 1 through 7.

If there was an area that I was disappointed with, it was Holes 8-14. As individual holes, they are fine, but it felt unfulfilling to play so many sub-200 foot holes in a row. Acorn has always been a slightly under par course, but the challenge was trying to remain a few under par because there were a few spots that could get you. Up through Hole 7 you still have that feeling, as I was maybe -1 or -2 both rounds, but if you are not -6 to -8 after Hole 14, you do not feel like you have been shooting well. Essentially those holes almost feel like a different course. I think breaking up old Hole 11 and 15 was a mistake because leaving those long would have kept it more "Acorn". Do not get me wrong, I understand the need to redesign and maybe there was no possibly way to save 11 or 15, but I am back to the only thing that really detracted from my truly loving the changes, that of so many short, almost repetitive, holes back to back to back.

All in all, I think the changes were more positive than negative, but I think the negative changes are going to keep this from ever being considered a championship level course. I know that this was not the intention of the redesign, but now more so than ever, it makes it glaringly obvious how much the Westside needs a course like Kaposia, Lakewood, Oakwood, or The Valley. Even Vision Quest, definitely a premiere course, once "open" to the public is still 35-40 minutes for most players.
 
sounds like it will be a good early-season course to get back up to speed. i like having courses that span the difficulty gap. i'm probably 9-925ish rated? (still need to find a couple events this year) and anything below my ability is boring, anything above is dumb, like most i'm sure.

agree with the above that the west side needs some 18s - i drive from st paul to albertville and all i pass is the repetitive 400' elm creek. i head down out of the way to bryant because imho it's the best course we have in the metro for variety, elevation use, variety, course upkeep, variety, tees-baskets-signs. (BRP is still in the special trip category for me, and VQ was fun and doesn't sound like i'll be playing it a lot)

makes me look forward even more to the project in coon rapids, which i think will be a top rated course for the metro when it's done if there's variety, and variety.
 
Why could they not have kept old 10 and 11? Both holes could have remained in place without changing the rest of the layout. Just don't put in the dumb 170 ft hole that goes under the tree branch and the short hyzer shot. I also dislike they took out the signature in the circle eye level tree branch on old 9. Put the damn basket back in there, maybe move it closer to the back of the trees so it's 25-30 ft from the tree branch instead of 15. You basically took out elevation on old 10 which would be 8 in this layout and old 11 having a 400 ft shot on old 11 which should be 9.


I enjoy the first 7 holes but agreed on holes 8-15 being a major disappointment to every player in our groups. It just does not feel right how it is layed out with 2 holes on old 13
 
The fact that they jammed 7 holes less than 210 ft all in a row is a terrible design. It kind of reminds me of a kid trying to fit something on a page and when they start getting to the edge they just start writing smaller and curving down the edge of the page. I can just imaging them having grandiose plans for a gold course and as the map filled up they just started writing smaller and smaller and more cramped.

Those 7 short holes in a row feel a lot like your playing a shorter version of Wabun, but with putt-putt style gimmicks.
 
I also dislike they took out the signature in the circle eye level tree branch on old 9. Put the damn basket back in there, maybe move it closer to the back of the trees so it's 25-30 ft from the tree branch instead of 15. You basically took out elevation on old 10 which would be 8 in this layout and old 11 having a 400 ft shot on old 11 which should be 9.


I enjoy the first 7 holes but agreed on holes 8-15 being a major disappointment to every player in our groups. It just does not feel right how it is layed out with 2 holes on old 13

The fact that they jammed 7 holes less than 210 ft all in a row is a terrible design. It kind of reminds me of a kid trying to fit something on a page and when they start getting to the edge they just start writing smaller and curving down the edge of the page. I can just imaging them having grandiose plans for a gold course and as the map filled up they just started writing smaller and smaller and more cramped.

Those 7 short holes in a row feel a lot like your playing a shorter version of Wabun, but with putt-putt style gimmicks.

I was looking forward to some variety, and it's good to have a course that is beginner friendly, but I guess the red tees to short baskets would really be more toddler friendly.

It's good to have some sub-200, but by the 5th one in a row, i kinda shook my head, and by 15 I was ready to drive to another course. i think i only used a driver on a few holes :\

I can see that (most) of the short holes have some kind of quirk, like a tree in the way or death-ace-run with hill behind it, but if you're just playing for the best score, it really doesn't matter how good your throw is, a bad throw still just slides and skips close enough to putt. It's really only fun if you are running aces, making the putts interesting.

Although this is the closest after work course to me, I think i'll be driving else where for a while. If I need to bring out a newbie, this is probably the place to do it. Just help encourage through the first couple holes that are tight.

And a bunch of the par 4 were sadly tweeners :thmbdown: Luck gets a putt, tree gets you an awkward 90' waste of a stroke
 

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