Acorn Park, Roseville MN

[Aim For The Chains]

Course plays great IMO. You guys are whiners.

 

[SonicGuy]

Course plays great IMO. You guys are whiners.

Case closed, course is awesome, Aims has spoken!

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Everyone out there today was saying same thing. Didnt hear a bad word from a packed course and asked many groups.

 

[timj5304]

You clearly did not ask our group lol. It's fun if you enjoy 2+ hour rounds on a course that should take 40 minutes to play.


I highly recommend anyone going here on a weekend to do so in larger groups because it is packed and then some. Most holes have 2 groups waiting to tee. Am I glad acorn is reopened again? For sure, it's a huge asset to our dg community. At the same time when a world class course designer keeps certain dinker holes like old 7 and 8 in play only slightly moving tee pads and baskets just a tad bit but could leave better holes in like old 10 and 11 and wastes land with holes like 8 and 9 in the new layout, it really shocked me. The flow on new 11 is really bad, the sidearm or lefty hyzer that is 180 ft, it's a good hole but out of the 6 rounds I have played on the layout, our group has been thrown on 3x.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

LOL. yeah it flowed SO well b4 there were no back ups at all at acorn............ I mean come on lets get real here'

I don't play this course for that exact reason you mention. It is one of the most centrally located courses in the twin cities.

Get real with your ideas and visions for a change. Its ****ing Roseville MN you are lucky there is even DGC in that town lol.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

PS i think TimJ might be one of thr biggest trolls of MN disc golf. Look at his terrible review of a school course in his neighborhood. No wonder disc golf is ****ed. Thanks to you guys.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Lots to cover on the revised Acorn course.

Constraint 1: Pretty much the same total property area as before. We lost most of old 6 based on neighbors' request. That drive was also potentially the most risky for blindly surprising a path walker. We got the new swampy area where new 2 is located as compensation for losing 6 area.

Constraint 2: Reducing interference with the path on old 2, 3, 12 and 15 in particular. Throwing across a path immediately in front of the tee like old 14 plus new 3 and 4 is not considered a problem. However, neighbors didn't like it when players waiting to throw were standing on the paths blocking walkers, bikers and skaters. So we tried to reduce waiting on the paths by relocating some tees, moving some farther in from the path and adding benches so players could wait while sitting.

Constraint 3: The holes would not be lengthened to blue or gold level and remain mostly at white level or below. The space isn't there to start with for a more Championship layout and much of Acorn's popularity is its fun challenge for Rec players.

Blind holes slow play on courses when players have to walk ahead to check it out, see if the previous group is clear and take more time looking for their throws. With the traffic at Acorn, I tried to reduce blind shots. The only truly blind hole now is 16. But at least the basket is straight ahead and it shouldn't take long to find discs since you can see most of its flight path before it disappears.

Par 4s are not blind if you can't see the basket from the tee as long as you can see the pin from the intended drive landing area. Acorn now has five legit white level par 4s versus two in the old layout. The two old par 4s (9 & 18) are mostly retained but I think have been improved both aesthetically and with reduced interference with nearby holes. New trees will be added this fall to provide additional separation of 15, 16, 17 & 18 plus the prairie grass areas should be in full bloom by next spring to improve fairway separation.

With regard to retaining/changing existing holes, holes 10 & 11 were going – 10 was blind and had a poor transition walk and 11 was a tweener hole for white level with slow play where many players had to wait on the tee until players finished this "par 3.5" hole. The old layout was designed in 1996 before ratings and course skill levels were developed. Old 11 might be fine on a blue level course but not for the flow on new Acorn. Notice that the five par 4s in the new layout are designed so players can tee off once the group ahead has played toward the green and are close to putting. From what I've seen, the flow on the new layout seems to move well with minor delays here and there primarily from looking for discs on a few holes. Hopefully, that will get better as the schule gets worn down.

Old holes 7 & 8, now 5 & 6, were retained and made more visible. Old 8 is a legacy hole from the earliest Acorn layouts and was always a challenging shot for amateurs. While it may be a bit easier now because some scrub trees have come down over the years, I think it's important to retain some connection with past designs where possible, especially the better and/or fun holes. Holes 1, 5, 6, 10 and 18 in the new layout are pretty close to the old holes.

Seems like the run of 7 deuce holes from 8 thru 14 bothers some people from a design standpoint. If we were reasonably able to do anything else in that area of the property, we would have done it. We spent a lot of time with a variety of holes and routing options in that area plus getting good feedback from the Twin Cities FB page. It's the best we could come up with.

The pathway constraints and total area available pretty much determined the hole lengths. Our job was to fit them in the jigsaw puzzle appropriately and get as much variety in the holes as possible. Certainly sacrificing a par 4 in another area to try and fit one in that area was a consideration. But a par 4 in that area just wouldn't fit well and would split the area making it even more difficult to fit the other short holes in there. We liked the new 14 so much even though we knew a few overeager players would rip drives down there a bit too far. So we put up the netting just in case. We're getting native vines to grow up the posts into the netting to give it a more natural look in the long run.

Note that the old layout had a string of 8 deuce holes in a row to start the round. Now we have just 7 in row that test a wide variety of throws later in the round. One of my goals was to make the front nine a bit tougher and I think that was achieved.

Only the new trees this Fall remain for course improvements. I'll be asking Tim to now allow reviews for the course.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Thanks for the insight and i love the work which has been done. Everyone ive spoke with mentioned the same and a few even commented how their gf/kid really enjoyed playing from the shorter tees.

Looks great and plays even better! Hit my first ace of the year on 16 walked up over the hill and couldn't find my disc anywhere until i looked in the basket!

 

[dark_clark]

...We spent a lot of time with a variety of holes and routing options in that area plus getting good feedback from the Twin Cities FB page.

I would like to creep this page. Anyone have a link?

 

[BirdieMachine]

I was surprised by the poor reviews on here. I played it a couple weeks ago. I thought it was a 100 percent improvement. Nice big tee pads, two sets of tees and two sets of baskets on many holes allows for great replay value and great for beginners and youth. From what it was, I can't believe the transformation.

Gets the Birdiemachine seal of approval. hehe

 

[Pbmercil]

You clearly did not ask our group lol. It's fun if you enjoy 2+ hour rounds on a course that should take 40 minutes to play.


I highly recommend anyone going here on a weekend to do so in larger groups because it is packed and then some. Most holes have 2 groups waiting to tee. Am I glad acorn is reopened again? For sure, it's a huge asset to our dg community. At the same time when a world class course designer keeps certain dinker holes like old 7 and 8 in play only slightly moving tee pads and baskets just a tad bit but could leave better holes in like old 10 and 11 and wastes land with holes like 8 and 9 in the new layout, it really shocked me. The flow on new 11 is really bad, the sidearm or lefty hyzer that is 180 ft, it's a good hole but out of the 6 rounds I have played on the layout, our group has been thrown on 3x.

Lol acorn is always packed. Don't know how you can knock a course for being busy that has always been packed.

 

[SonicGuy]

Thank you for the post, now time for me to have a tantrum

Constraint 1: Pretty much the same total property area as before. We lost most of old 6 based on neighbors' request. That drive was also potentially the most risky for blindly surprising a path walker. We got the new swampy area where new 2 is located as compensation for losing 6 area.

Fair enough, did not know #6 was an issue.

Constraint 2: Reducing interference with the path on old 2, 3, 12 and 15 in particular. Throwing across a path immediately in front of the tee like old 14 plus new 3 and 4 is not considered a problem. However, neighbors didn't like it when players waiting to throw were standing on the paths blocking walkers, bikers and skaters. So we tried to reduce waiting on the paths by relocating some tees, moving some farther in from the path and adding benches so players could wait while sitting.

Complete failure. 3 has the exact same interference with the path. Old 12 and 15 both threw immediately in front of the path, which you just said was not a problem. The only hole that was "fixed" was #2. In addition you absolutely MUST wait on the path for 3 and 12. Besides #2 this course layout is worse for interaction with paths.

Constraint 3: The holes would not be lengthened to blue or gold level and remain mostly at white level or below. The space isn't there to start with for a more Championship layout and much of Acorn's popularity is its fun challenge for Rec players.

Acorn's popularity is due to its location. #1 is one of the most punitive hols in MN for rec level golfers, but they play despite this because of the location. The space argument would be fine if you didn't waste so much that was available.

Blind holes slow play on courses when players have to walk ahead to check it out, see if the previous group is clear and take more time looking for their throws. With the traffic at Acorn, I tried to reduce blind shots. The only truly blind hole now is 16. But at least the basket is straight ahead and it shouldn't take long to find discs since you can see most of its flight path before it disappears.

#7 is now the absolute WORST hole in MN for losing discs or having trouble locating them. It is absolutely a blind shot and encourages you to throw around a tall grass / wet area without any visibility. 3, 4, and 15 are also blind shots, no matter what your personal definition is. Most disc golfers can put a disc out of eyesight from the tee on both those holes, and it is extremely difficult to get a vantage point to verify the hole is clear. This was not a complaint of mine, but seeing you list this as an intended improvement forces me to point out that the course is now worse off on blind shots.

Par 4s are not blind if you can't see the basket from the tee as long as you can see the pin from the intended drive landing area. Acorn now has five legit white level par 4s versus two in the old layout. The two old par 4s (9 & 18) are mostly retained but I think have been improved both aesthetically and with reduced interference with nearby holes. New trees will be added this fall to provide additional separation of 15, 16, 17 & 18 plus the prairie grass areas should be in full bloom by next spring to improve fairway separation.

See above for my thoughts on your off beat "theory" about blind par 4's.

With regard to retaining/changing existing holes, holes 10 & 11 were going – 10 was blind and had a poor transition walk and 11 was a tweener hole for white level with slow play where many players had to wait on the tee until players finished this "par 3.5" hole. The old layout was designed in 1996 before ratings and course skill levels were developed. Old 11 might be fine on a blue level course but not for the flow on new Acorn. Notice that the five par 4s in the new layout are designed so players can tee off once the group ahead has played toward the green and are close to putting. From what I've seen, the flow on the new layout seems to move well with minor delays here and there primarily from looking for discs on a few holes. Hopefully, that will get better as the schule gets worn down.

I have no idea what poor transition you are referring to. 10 was blind but not an issue as you could see players coming up while holing out on 9.

As far as "tweener" holes you have created the ultimate tweeners in 3 and 4. Both are pitifully short par 4's in the same mold as old 11. The only difference is that your new holes have a super luck factor in play, where as old 11 you could get a 2 with sufficient skill and power.

Old holes 7 & 8, now 5 & 6, were retained and made more visible. Old 8 is a legacy hole from the earliest Acorn layouts and was always a challenging shot for amateurs. While it may be a bit easier now because some scrub trees have come down over the years, I think it's important to retain some connection with past designs where possible, especially the better and/or fun holes. Holes 1, 5, 6, 10 and 18 in the new layout are pretty close to the old holes.

#5 had my second favorite green on Acorn after old 9 long. It was a perfect shape and size, and in the spring would be covered in flowers. Why you would move it to the left without any green definition at all is crazy. #6 now has a very janky tee pad that will assuredly fill with water for most of the spring. You didn't construct the actual tees so that isn't on you, but it is absolutely a problem with the course.

Seems like the run of 7 deuce holes from 8 thru 14 bothers some people from a design standpoint. If we were reasonably able to do anything else in that area of the property, we would have done it. We spent a lot of time with a variety of holes and routing options in that area plus getting good feedback from the Twin Cities FB page. It's the best we could come up with.

It is not the fact that there is a deuce run, it is the incredibly poor quality of the hole design. 13 is imo the worst hole on the course without a green or a fairway. 12 has the alt basket directly in line with the desired flight making black aces on the same freaking hole an almost certainty. 8 is stupid like old 4 was stupid. 9 is another easy shot with a gimmicky basket. The problem is that most people walking along the holes can see multiple other layouts that would have worked better.

The pathway constraints and total area available pretty much determined the hole lengths. Our job was to fit them in the jigsaw puzzle appropriately and get as much variety in the holes as possible. Certainly sacrificing a par 4 in another area to try and fit one in that area was a consideration. But a par 4 in that area just wouldn't fit well and would split the area making it even more difficult to fit the other short holes in there. We liked the new 14 so much even though we knew a few overeager players would rip drives down there a bit too far. So we put up the netting just in case. We're getting native vines to grow up the posts into the netting to give it a more natural look in the long run.

OK, that is fine. I think that people would have been happy without a single par 4 on the course. I do not like the poorly designed par 4's that we got. I find 14 meh but I can admit that is just taste, it would be nice if I didn't have to worry about being hit by a disc from 13.

 

[Jenga54]

luckily we won't be seeing Sonic out there at Acorn anytime soon yikes

 

[Pbmercil]

Thank you for the post, now time for me to have a tantrum




Fair enough, did not know #6 was an issue.



Complete failure. 3 has the exact same interference with the path. Old 12 and 15 both threw immediately in front of the path, which you just said was not a problem. The only hole that was "fixed" was #2. In addition you absolutely MUST wait on the path for 3 and 12. Besides #2 this course layout is worse for interaction with paths.



Acorn's popularity is due to its location. #1 is one of the most punitive hols in MN for rec level golfers, but they play despite this because of the location. The space argument would be fine if you didn't waste so much that was available.



#7 is now the absolute WORST hole in MN for losing discs or having trouble locating them. It is absolutely a blind shot and encourages you to throw around a tall grass / wet area without any visibility. 3, 4, and 15 are also blind shots, no matter what your personal definition is. Most disc golfers can put a disc out of eyesight from the tee on both those holes, and it is extremely difficult to get a vantage point to verify the hole is clear. This was not a complaint of mine, but seeing you list this as an intended improvement forces me to point out that the course is now worse off on blind shots.



See above for my thoughts on your off beat "theory" about blind par 4's.



I have no idea what poor transition you are referring to. 10 was blind but not an issue as you could see players coming up while holing out on 9.

As far as "tweener" holes you have created the ultimate tweeners in 3 and 4. Both are pitifully short par 4's in the same mold as old 11. The only difference is that your new holes have a super luck factor in play, where as old 11 you could get a 2 with sufficient skill and power.



#5 had my second favorite green on Acorn after old 9 long. It was a perfect shape and size, and in the spring would be covered in flowers. Why you would move it to the left without any green definition at all is crazy. #6 now has a very janky tee pad that will assuredly fill with water for most of the spring. You didn't construct the actual tees so that isn't on you, but it is absolutely a problem with the course.




It is not the fact that there is a deuce run, it is the incredibly poor quality of the hole design. 13 is imo the worst hole on the course without a green or a fairway. 12 has the alt basket directly in line with the desired flight making black aces on the same freaking hole an almost certainty. 8 is stupid like old 4 was stupid. 9 is another easy shot with a gimmicky basket. The problem is that most people walking along the holes can see multiple other layouts that would have worked better.



OK, that is fine. I think that people would have been happy without a single par 4 on the course. I do not like the poorly designed par 4's that we got. I find 14 meh but I can admit that is just taste, it would be nice if I didn't have to worry about being hit by a disc from 13.

The butthurt is strong with this one.

Feel free to design your own course next time, then it will surely be up to your standards.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

You would think the old layout was actually a good course or something lol. The damn park is still just acorn.

Also people walk along the paths not across them. Many old fairways played directly on or parallel to those paths or tees were placed where traffic from multiple directions was an issue. That is no longer really the case.

 

[DinosaurThunder]

#7 is now the absolute WORST hole in MN for losing discs or having trouble locating them. It is absolutely a blind shot and encourages you to throw around a tall grass / wet area without any visibility. 3, 4, and 15 are also blind shots, no matter what your personal definition is. Most disc golfers can put a disc out of eyesight from the tee on both those holes, and it is extremely difficult to get a vantage point to verify the hole is clear. This was not a complaint of mine, but seeing you list this as an intended improvement forces me to point out that the course is now worse off on blind shots.

In my opinion based on the layout of#7, it is meant for a placement shot to the clearing and then a second shot (full visibility)to the hill for an easy birdie putt, hence the par 4 rating. While many have the distance to challenge the hill the basket is on, those are the type of players who have the disc control to play risk/reward with a blind shot. In the seven rounds I have played the new layout, I have not seen one group looking for a disc on that hole.

 

[SonicGuy]

The butthurt is strong with this one.

Feel free to design your own course next time, then it will surely be up to your standards.

I or any number of other competent disc golfers would have loved the chance to redesign acorn. Especially seeing that Chuck made off with about 8 baskets...

 

[SonicGuy]

You would think the old layout was actually a good course or something lol. The damn park is still just acorn.

Also people walk along the paths not across them. Many old fairways played directly on or parallel to those paths or tees were placed where traffic from multiple directions was an issue. That is no longer really the case.

The problem is you are a rec player that started playing more recently. Acorn was one of three great courses originally. What we had was an old school course with character. Now we have what looks like a poorly designed church course with nice new baskets on not enough land with not enough good design.

The old design had two holes play along the path? Maybe three?

 

[Aim For The Chains]

The problem is you are a rec player that started playing more recently. Acorn was one of three great courses originally. What we had was an old school course with character. Now we have what looks like a poorly designed church course with nice new baskets on not enough land with not enough good design.

The old design had two holes play along the path? Maybe three?

What does that first part even mean?

As for point #2... Holes 2 3 4 6 9 14 15 i believe were the fairways or tees. Did you play the old course?

 

[Jenga54]

I or any number of other competent disc golfers would have loved the chance to redesign acorn. Especially seeing that Chuck made off with about 8 baskets...

Maybe you should file a police report...