ALL Mach baskets should be outlawed in pro tournaments!

[Flick Maniac]

Ah, but am i typing it now, or saying it?

In any case, as to the topic... I gotta say I dig the Prodigy baskets in their consistency. If they deny a soft putt that hits a little too much to the side, then blame on me. At least any cut-throughs are impossible. While at the same time, I do acknowledge that if I am putting on a basket type that is NOT cut-through-proof and proceed to chuck one in there with too much hyzer and the pole flips it vertical and out the back... then again, blame on me.

 

[thrembo]

Yeah, the Prodigy baskets are nice. I liked the Gateway Titans when they first came out, but they don't seem to age well. I'm just happy to have courses with baskets on them.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Both parts of his pre-existing nickname have one syllable each. You're not saving any time by saying "JK" or "BJ".

I like JEK. He should go by Ed.

 

[T Strat]

Only read the first few pages but IMO the problem is less about baskets spitting out, and more about consistency at the top level. Pro tour events should all have to use the same baskets.. Last time I checked in ball golf the hole is the same size on every course. If everyone had to putt on mach baskets every week, there would be nothing to complain about.

Even if it came down to the PDGA buying a truck and baskets and driving them to every pro tour event and replacing the current baskets before the tourney starts. Does not seem impossible,

 

[walde]

I don't feel like there was an unusual amount of spit outs, cut throughs etc. during the Memorial. It does happen occasionally but I don't recall seeing an unusual amount of them. I feel like most putts that didn't stick, weren't good putts or at least gave the basket a chance not to catch them. Y'all know what that kind of putts are like.
Also, I'm a little surprised as I've mostly heard and read praises for the Mach X for catching a lot of putts that other baskets might not catch. My experience is very limited as there are no DGA baskets around here and I've only ever seen one Mach X and some other Mach models I'm not familiar with when I was in the US last Autumn so I can't really speak for or against them. They seem to catch really well though for what I've seen on tourney videos.

Philo had an ace.. right in the basket... and that mach basket spit it back out. Other baskets would've held it for the rightful ace.

How do you know this? In my experience you always need luck for the disc to stick in the basket when coming in with such velocity. They often just don't stick.

I've got a question for the OP; I'm sure you've watched other footage of tourneys where said Mach X and Mach 5 baskets have been used. In your opinion, has there consistently been more spit outs from those baskets than from other baskets models?

 

[lyleoross]

Both parts of his pre-existing nickname have one syllable each. You're not saving any time by saying "JK" or "BJ".

I don' speak when I write. But you're correct, Jerm is not JK.

 

[Cgkdisc]

The original high profile JK is the current Pro Legend World Champ, PDGA #100.

 

[lyleoross]

I don't feel like there was an unusual amount of spit outs, cut throughs etc. during the Memorial. It does happen occasionally but I don't recall seeing an unusual amount of them. I feel like most putts that didn't stick, weren't good putts or at least gave the basket a chance not to catch them. Y'all know what that kind of putts are like.
Also, I'm a little surprised as I've mostly heard and read praises for the Mach X for catching a lot of putts that other baskets might not catch. My experience is very limited as there are no DGA baskets around here and I've only ever seen one Mach X and some other Mach models I'm not familiar with when I was in the US last Autumn so I can't really speak for or against them. They seem to catch really well though for what I've seen on tourney videos.



How do you know this? In my experience you always need luck for the disc to stick in the basket when coming in with such velocity. They often just don't stick.

I've got a question for the OP; I'm sure you've watched other footage of tourneys where said Mach X and Mach 5 baskets have been used. In your opinion, has there consistently been more spit outs from those baskets than from other baskets models?

A couple of things, most of the, this basket has more spit outs, is supposition. No one ever counts. That said, while I feel we do need to count, the group, that is, all disc golfers, comments and baskets get reputations. The Mach X, from the start developed a reputation for needing a firm putt. Subtle things come back out.

A large number of spit outs are user error IMO. Whether that's because of delivery alone or delivery and basket design (that is, the player has to accommodate the basket characteristics) doesn't matter to me. It's like saying, I can hit that red square above the basket as hard as I want, and the ball should fall in the hoop, to say the player doesn't have to accommodate the basket.

SD86's notion that if a disc hits dead center, it should be in, is not uncommon. It treats the sport like it's archery. I hit the bullseye. The question is, do we want putting to be more subtle than that? Even pros vary on this. The two referenced interviews have Jerm, archery, and Paul and Nate, subtle. Hence, we debate.

 

[Darkgreen]

Koling and Ulibarri also expressed strong feelings regarding targets, especially JK. (28:43 - 43:43)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=II_b1lN42k4&t=82s

I love so much what Koling says here.

 

[SonicGuy]

SD86's notion that if a disc hits dead center, it should be in, is not uncommon. It treats the sport like it's archery. I hit the bullseye. The question is, do we want putting to be more subtle than that? Even pros vary on this. The two referenced interviews have Jerm, archery, and Paul and Nate, subtle. Hence, we debate.

The archery vs golf analogy is spot on. :thmbup:

 

[Lewis]

Let me offer two solutions for the people who want to remove the advantage of "die it in the hole" subtlety in putting.

The first option would be to replace your basket's chains with a larger version of this:

That should give you the radial symmetry some are asking for, and get rid of the dreaded cut-through putts (that's a worse problem to me than bounce-outs), though smashing putts might still bounce out if you hit the chains too hard. You could also soften the pole with a wrapping of synthetic goose down, and coat the chains in a sticky surface like the NFL receivers have on their gloves. How much do you want to spend?

The second option should be a tone pole, but I'd like to add a hockey goal style light that flashes when the pole takes a hit.

 

[Dr.Smooth]

Good discussion to improve our sport here. I think one thing that has always baffled me is why am I throwing a plastic thing at a hard rigid target. This is unusual. Think about it, all target sports go into an object that is equal to or less than the rigidity of the projectile.

So with that thought, we should evolve from metal to either a coated metal or plastic chain, basket set up. Trust me the disc manufactures don't want this. Cause your putters would last 3x as long.

 

[SonicGuy]

Good discussion to improve our sport here. I think one thing that has always baffled me is why am I throwing a plastic thing at a hard rigid target. This is unusual. Think about it, all target sports go into an object that is equal to or less than the rigidity of the projectile.

So with that thought, we should evolve from metal to either a coated metal or plastic chain, basket set up. Trust me the disc manufactures don't want this. Cause your putters would last 3x as long.

What in the world are you talking about here :\

 

[Tim_the_Enchanter]

In that interview, Paul kind of contradicted himself. First he said that the Mach X catches too well, and he later said that if you're hitting solid chains, your putt should stick, using the ball golf analogy "if it's going in the cup, it's going in the cup." Nate clarified though, that in ball golf it's possible to putt too hard and roll over the cup.

It's an interesting point to raise, that there should be more of a finesse to putting. I can certainly appreciate that, but the goal of basket designers over the years has been to improve the design to reduce the amount of fluky spit outs, so that "good" putts stick. That has evolved into baskets where you have to commit to your shot more, but if you're hitting your line, your putt has a better chance of sticking.

The basket that Paul seems to want is one that catches all good putts that hit solid chains, but putts that hit the chains TOO hard shouldn't stick. And the chain area should be smaller. Maybe such a basket is possible, but to me it sounds like a unicorn (well, at least until someone can perfect the Dinger). I like the argument that Nate and Paul raise, but if it's a trade off of putting a little harder in favor of more consistent results, well, I'm happy to put a little more mustard on my putts. Maybe it's a paradigm shift of what constitutes a "good putt."

Of course, another viewpoint would be that Paul's preference for "finesse baskets" is that he wants a leg up on competitors that are dangerous with their powerful putting.

 

[armiller]

I just want to say what most of us already know or take for granted: the current disc golf target is pretty dang close to perfect, and it's a large reason for disc golf's level of success. It ain't broke, so I'm kinda confused about what we're trying to fix.

 

[ohtobediscing]

....all target sports go into an object that is equal to or less than the rigidity of the projectile.

Not even close. Basketball goes into a metal rim. Football goes through metal goalposts. Golfball goes into metal or solid plastic cup. Soccerball through a metal frame. Beanbags go into a plastic or metal cornhole.
Stop me when you've heard enough. :|

 

[Cgkdisc]

I just want to say what most of us already know or take for granted: the current disc golf target is pretty dang close to perfect, and it's a large reason for disc golf's level of success. It ain't broke, so I'm kinda confused about what we're trying to fix.

Highly successful for growing the recreational and amateur competitive game but far from perfect as a consistent, professional way to complete the hole. That's the challenge, meeting both needs with the same target.

 

[Consult20]

What in the world are you talking about here :\

I think he means that after a disc hits 4 or 5 trees on a hole, the disc clearly needs a break on the last leg of it's journey.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Not even close. Basketball goes into a metal rim. Football goes through metal goalposts. Golfball goes into metal or solid plastic cup. Soccerball through a metal frame. Beanbags go into a plastic or metal cornhole.
Stop me when you've heard enough. :|

You missed his point though. In those examples, the projectile finishes through soft air or net, not chains.

 

[ohtobediscing]

I just want to say what most of us already know or take for granted: the current disc golf target is pretty dang close to perfect, and it's a large reason for disc golf's level of success. It ain't broke, so I'm kinda confused about what we're trying to fix.

Most of us are happy to play whatever target is available. The malcontents are fanbois upset at the imperfections of their idols, and looking for something to blame. :\