topdog
Par Member
I dont know where you keep coming up with winning discs. At 2004 worlds I got a 2004 worlds mini basket, 2004 mini, like 4 shirts and a sweatshirt with my swag. Stuff that I still have to this day.
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Am Worlds in Emporia will be a trophy-only tournament
- Thread starter steven2361
- Start date
I dont know where you keep coming up with winning discs. At 2004 worlds I got a 2004 worlds mini basket, 2004 mini, like 4 shirts and a sweatshirt with my swag. Stuff that I still have to this day.
topdog
Par Member
Bowling Green is as big as worlds on a smaller scale.
topdog
Par Member
Then you have some of these trophies only tournaments that make advanced players pay $10 extra for the same stuff as the rest of the divisions. I am all for the experience thing and the TD making some money from a tournament but not ripping people off.
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How about something like:
AM2 - Beginners and Hackers. 1 Win in this class and you move up. Or enough pride.
AM1 - Pretty good for a white guy throwers. Not good enough for the Pro Classes. Yet.....// Can stay AM1 forever. Both AM1 and AM2 are trophy classes. Maybe you get a players pack maybe you don't. Maybe you get a Disc as your trophy. IDK.
All monies from AM1 and AM2 stays in AM1 and AM2
Pro3 - 3 wins in one year moves you up to Pro2. Year end ratings above IDK 890? or something moves you up to Pro2.
Pro2 - Can stay Pro2 forever. But and this is a big BUT....Pro2 class can be moved into the Pro1/OPEN -Pro as it will be the TD call to include a Pro2 class or not at certain events. RT and local events or whatever may have only Pro3 and OPEN-Pro Classes. In which case all Pro2 play OPEN-Pro. NT and Championship Tourney's host only Pro3 and OPEN-Pro1.
Pro1/OPEN-PRO1 - IN-IT-TO-WIN-IT. 'nuff said.
All monies from Pro Classes stays in Pro.
AM2 - Beginners and Hackers. 1 Win in this class and you move up. Or enough pride.
AM1 - Pretty good for a white guy throwers. Not good enough for the Pro Classes. Yet.....// Can stay AM1 forever. Both AM1 and AM2 are trophy classes. Maybe you get a players pack maybe you don't. Maybe you get a Disc as your trophy. IDK.
All monies from AM1 and AM2 stays in AM1 and AM2
Pro3 - 3 wins in one year moves you up to Pro2. Year end ratings above IDK 890? or something moves you up to Pro2.
Pro2 - Can stay Pro2 forever. But and this is a big BUT....Pro2 class can be moved into the Pro1/OPEN -Pro as it will be the TD call to include a Pro2 class or not at certain events. RT and local events or whatever may have only Pro3 and OPEN-Pro Classes. In which case all Pro2 play OPEN-Pro. NT and Championship Tourney's host only Pro3 and OPEN-Pro1.
Pro1/OPEN-PRO1 - IN-IT-TO-WIN-IT. 'nuff said.
All monies from Pro Classes stays in Pro.
Casual Squishy
Par Member
Not broken, just getting a little outdated
The fact that our system can't support a large enough Disc Golfers for a living doesn't really have much to do with that, we haven't had enough players at any level to support players of that level. Given enough time it's slowly emerging on its own. Disc golf may have just grown up enough to change our focus to that.
The payout system got us to where we are today and we just have not reached the point where we can discard it, we can't take that big leap yet and keep disc golf growing at the same time. But we can tweak it to me more even across all of today's divisions to make it work better and support the expansion of disc golf in a new way, on a bigger scale.
Our current tournament system is really like "Bigger league" to look at it one way.
Casual Squishy
Par Member
Darn, I read that whole document 4 times before I went back and reread your post, now I know why I couldn't find it either
At any rate, it did used to say TDs could keep money and I remember when I read it it seemed quite reasonable...
And plastic dealers could still make money from PDGA guidelines player packs and on site sales even without plastic payouts.
And nothing stopping a TD from doing both or just one, whatever's easier for them.
Thanks Chuck, you are truly the all seeing eye on here when we need you.
my mind skipped right from max fee to this document when i skimmed that post..
Casual Squishy
Par Member
It's been a long day on this thread.. didn't start out that way, but I hope we all had fun
dbanderson
Par Member
Y'all need to let go of the terms professional and amateur in their literal meaning and look at the reality of who plays in tournaments and what they are wanting out of it. Just because the PDGA utilizes those terms does not mean anything. I wish the PDGA would stop using them because of what follows in discussions like these.
Nope. Being good at something, even the best at something, doesn't entitle anyone to make a living at it. You make a living because what you do has value to someone else.
In sports, this is generally entertainment value, and so far there's little indication that the best disc golfers are a great entertainment value to enough people for them to make much of a living at it.
Agreed in principle. But the labels do serve a purpose. They divide top competition levels from the lower levels, in a way that anyone in or out of the sport can immediately recognize. And they're short---"Pro" and "Am".
Oh, I've done essays on our use of "Professional" and "Amateur", myself. And essays as to how I wish our structure had evolved---or how it will be when I'm acclaimed Absolute Dictator. I'm certainly not entitled to any "Holier than Thou" status.
But these will not change the current structure, and specifically the Am-Payout system.
I'm reminded of a line to the effect of, "Everyone knows what's wrong with the country, and what needs to be done to straighten it out. And it never involves them doing anything different from what they're doing right now."
Huckfreely
Newbie
- Joined
- May 2, 2010
- Messages
- 14
HOORAY!!! IT'S ABOUT TIME. If you want to gamble at disc golf, step up to Open. Amateur should be all about fun and friendly competition.
jenb
* Ace Member *
^unfortunately, doing away with paying out a percentage of the field will make many feel like they can't compete. Being able to say you placed 1st, 2nd, or 3rd at worlds is still way better than "I cashed," but being able to say "I cashed at worlds" isn't nothing to a lot of people, especially the ones who have nothing else to aim for. So even if they have trophies for 1st, 2nd, and 3rd, I think many will stay home who would have attended if there were a payout to 50% or even 40% of the field.
As an 820ish rated player in an area where men's rec is trophy only, novice is non existent, and advanced women's divisions rare, I truly speak from experience. I've been staying home a lot lately. And while I was planning to go to am worlds this year, I will be so outclassed in trophy only that it will just be a cakewalk for me, and not a competitive experience at all. So I'm rethinking it right now, and I'm thinking I really don't feel like paying upwards of $1000 for a cakewalk.
As an 820ish rated player in an area where men's rec is trophy only, novice is non existent, and advanced women's divisions rare, I truly speak from experience. I've been staying home a lot lately. And while I was planning to go to am worlds this year, I will be so outclassed in trophy only that it will just be a cakewalk for me, and not a competitive experience at all. So I'm rethinking it right now, and I'm thinking I really don't feel like paying upwards of $1000 for a cakewalk.
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What if you got to say "I made the cut at worlds" instead? It seems to me that having a cut for a final round accomplishes the same thing as a payout. It gives those in the middle of the field something to play for.
I always find this curiously revealing. There's a kernal of truth---Ams payouts are really, mostly, just groups of less-than-top players gambling with each other.
Why can't they?
Can't a foursome at the local golf club gamble on their round? Who says gambling is a right reserved for only the best players? What's wrong with a bunch of us weaker players getting together and gambling on the results? Viewed this way, tournaments and the PDGA division structure is merely formalizing this.
Future_Primitive
Double Eagle Member
- Joined
- Nov 15, 2012
- Messages
- 1,770
The term Amateur Payout is an oxymoron, seriously you people demanding payment while being an "amateur" have lost your marbles. You're playing as an amateur and expecting compensation. Most amateur sports competitors would laugh in your faces. If you're not liking the format go elsewhere. You're playing for a title of world champ not some crappy left over discs you plan on overpricing on ebay so you feel like a "real pro"
So funny how you keep trying to compare it to true amateur sports even when the PDGA representative tells you in plain English it hasn't had true
"amateur" status for over 20 years. :doh:
I must have made a mistake when registering for my membership, somehow I got signed up for the PDGA, the Professional Disc Golf Association. Can somebody please supply me a link to the ADGA so I can get this fixed and be part of the Amateur DGA? Oh wait there isn't one. :doh:
Gotta love the internet for times like these, just to dang funny.
No reason any player can't gamble if they want to gamble. I think some people object to the idea that the PDGA division structure formalizes it under the auspices of "amateur" competition. I've said it before, I'll say it again...make the formal competition truly amateur, and let the gamblers gamble on their own.
When I run a $10 amateur tournament, I encourage players to sidebet with one another if they're interested in making a profit on the day. I think it's easier to cater to all parties by doing it that way than to formalize the bet and force everyone to buy into it whether they want to or not.
In a sense, this already exists, however it is an opt out option rather than opt in. A TD can let anyone play trophy-only. Allowing them to pay the expense portion of the fee without the "buy-in" to the payout.
So funny how you keep trying to compare it to true amateur sports even when the PDGA representative tells you in plain English it hasn't had true "amateur" status for over 20 years. :doh:
Chuck is not a "PDGA representative". An occasional insider via ratings and course evaluation? Sure. But he does not represent the PDGA on this or any forum, and it's dangerous for that perception to persist like it does. His word is not law by any stretch of the imagination, and certainly is not the word of the PDGA.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Dangerous?
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