Are Flip City, Idlewild..etc...wussy courses?

[optidiscic]

have you seen any of the vibram movies? Maple Hill is far from a wussy course. i understand where you are coming from, but I'm just saying..

Actually played Maple Hill it is on my fav list. Great course multi throw holes high par ridiculous risk reward Water elevation wow factor. It's top notch and quite the challenge from the longs. Perhaps having some short tees and bailouts allows for some wuss friendliness. Lol

 

[Tolbert]

In regards to the reviews in question. WTF is all I can say.

My exact reaction when I read that Nockamixon review earlier tonight. I mean, each to their own opinion, but damn that was bs. Same kinda bs iron hill was getting. I love a course that kicks my butt, makes me think and over time improves my game. Even if some days I'm flirting with triple digit scores.
Love nockamixon.

 

[gottafixit]

this is why we need personal ratings

I really wish there was a feature that clumped courses together...sort of like the movie rentals where they say ..If you liked this movie you might like these other 10 titles.(although sometimes way off the mark I think it might be a way to interpret things better if user driven...maybe?)

Envision you see someone you don't know rate a clump of course on the recent reviewed tab and you agree with their ratings. If everyone could personally rate all the courses they have played and it would show next to them on the played tab of their profile you could have said effect. Disclaimer Personal ratings do not get calculated. But if you see said person liked said course as much as you rating wise you now have a place to search for other courses you might like based on what he has played and personally rated because you presumably share similar rating criteria.

As far as the reviewer in question I would not be looking at his ratings as we don't have similar rating criteria.

On a side not I think a 5 course should be playable to all levels. This would likely require multiple tees but if everyone can't have a good time on the course then I can't call it the best/5. This is why I'm a huge fan of the double tee double basket layouts when it's funds possible or the more and more alt pin location route as it adds difficultly with out taking away the option to play an easier setup.

 

[Three Putt]

I'd like an "advanced review" feature that would allow us to rate things like course difficulty, amenities, yada, yada, yada and then an overall rating for those of us that want to do that. It would be cool to easily show that the reason you gave a course a 4 was due to dirt tees and no restroom, but the design rocked your socks.

 

[tmahan]

Tougher isn't necessarily better. I think Paw Paw is probably tougher than Hawk Hollow. I think Hawk Hollow is more fun. Course par for both is mid 60s.

I've said it before, folks take the aggregate rating too seriously, the real value here is in the text. I saw the two disc rating and read the review and immediately thought this is a course I'd like to play, and my rating is probably upper 800's.

 

[Peterb]

I see Milo McIver on the top ten list. Having played it many times, I can tell you that it is not a wussy course, especially in the tournament configurations. Top pros have told me that it is by far the best course in the land.

 

[optidiscic]

I agree with u somewhat re rating being too important but I tend to search regions based on the rating criteria so I look at 4 or above rated etc. A few bad reviews and people like me miss out. So I think ratings are imp I'm going to va md and plan on hitting 4 rated and up. I wonder if I'm missing out?

Regarding paw paw it's a bit overrated iagree but it gets a lot of sentimental votes based on the experiences people have of getting there and playing. There still amazing golf to be played there and there's challenge galore but sometimes playing there lacks the fun factor dgers often crave

 

[sillybizz]

I see Milo McIver on the top ten list. Having played it many times, I can tell you that it is not a wussy course, especially in the tournament configurations. Top pros have told me that it is by far the best course in the land.

MIlo is VERY LONG and really hard, Whistler's Bend in the southern end of Oregon is on the top ten and even though the first six holes are short the rest of the course is difficult and long. Haven't played any others on the top ten.

 

[optidiscic]

Peterb might be the rare guy who has played some tougher courses on both coasts. I like 3 putts idea he's a mod. Got any pull?

 

[tmahan]

I don't think Paw Paw is overrated, it's a blast. The Hollow is just a tad better imo. Don't miss it and the Grange when you head down this way.

Good point about using the ratings as you suggested. Most of the top courses get enough play and hence reviews that the lowballs are averaged out by the prevailing opinion, but not always.

 

[optidiscic]

I rated paw paw a 4.5 I guess I remember when paw paw was considered the ultimate pilgrimmage in the last 5-7 yrs many comparable courses have emerged on the east coast alone. Paw paw ambience makes it stand out. Paw paw would get dinked by noobs for it's torturous woods and massive open holes. Luckily for paw paw the inexperienced dger never makes the insane drive deep into the wv mountain isolation to get their ego crushed

 

[Three Putt]

I like 3 putts idea he's a mod. Got any pull?

Nope.

 

[McLeod]

Nockamixon is an awesome course. I was living in Quakertown when that course was first being developed and a few holes just had sticks as targets. Even then I'd still give it a 4, for sure no less than 3.5. That first hole is such a nice line, plus there were some of the most scenic holes along the water.

It's very comparable to Gateway Park here in Fort Worth. Very long, overgrown fairways that punish the beginners. Since I've played it I'll write up a good review here in a while.

 

[gottafixit]

VA and MD

I agree with u somewhat re rating being too important but I tend to search regions based on the rating criteria so I look at 4 or above rated etc. A few bad reviews and people like me miss out. So I think ratings are imp I'm going to va md and plan on hitting 4 rated and up. I wonder if I'm missing out?

Regarding paw paw it's a bit overrated iagree but it gets a lot of sentimental votes based on the experiences people have of getting there and playing. There still amazing golf to be played there and there's challenge galore but sometimes playing there lacks the fun factor dgers often crave

if you want any opinions from someone that pretty much played them all in VA and MD then let me know and I can help you find some under rated courses.

Checked the numbers 4 and above in MD there are 2, VA I think it was 7. Thats leaving out a bunch of worth while courses.

 

[gottafixit]

PS this is another situation where personal ratings would be awesome. If you know that I've played everything in VA and MD and you agreed with a couple of my ratings then you would assume that by looking at my played list and seeing my personal ratings that you could use those as a guide for other courses I've played that you might like.

 

[ZMan44]

While I haven't played Nockamixon, I have played a lot of challenging courses including Renny, Moraine State Park, and Idlewild is just as hard as those courses. Idlewild is definitely not for the weak. If you play the long layout at Idlewild and walk away under 70, you have really accomplished something. I've bagged around 65 courses, and I consider Idlewild the toughest course I have played. Yes, Renny and other courses are very difficult. However, it is very dangerous pitting courses that you haven't played against courses that you have played. I am sure that Nockamixon is a difficult course. I don't agree that this should be listed as a "con". But I also disagree with the premise that a course's inclusion in the Top-10 list makes it an easy course.

 

[mashnut]

Flip and Idlewild are the only two of the top 10 I've played so far. They both stand out as immaculately maintained and scenic, and that's part of why they're rated so high. Idlewild has a lot of interesting challenges, I definitely wouldn't call it a wussy course. Flip has a lot more "easy" shots, but it has some length and some great roll away pins and blind shots that add some challenge. It's definitely not the toughest course I've played, but it's not just a pretty pitch n putt, at least for a mediocre player like me. Both were just downright fun to play for me, and that's one of the biggest reasons they're at the top of my favorites list.

 

[Beable]

The most challenging local course in my area just got a 1.5 from a local beginner. Seems that it just will never get a good DGCR rating due to it getting slammed by Noobs. These are quotes from the only 4 reviewers who gave it below a 4 rating(the other 19 gave it a 4 or above):
-Cons: too long. too convoluted and confusing. the holes are too long even for experienced players to not get a sore arm.
-Cons: Incredibly hard (maybe I'm just a newbie).
- Cons:Almost every hole is unforgiving, which is a real con for beginners (like me). This course will eat you alive!
-Cons: Only a handfull of the holes here are fun for staters to play the rest will leave you very very annoyed and chasing after your disk, this is not for people just starting out.
So I'm at the conclusion that for being difficult Nockamixon loses any shot at a top rating...Nocky has flaws..it holds water, it's rocky and muddy in places....we need to build some more boardwalks and bridges etc. but being too hard? C'mon that should not be a con. My goal when I play Nocky is to break 80...to me thats a good day. Most Pros throw in the 70s there and par is a difficult earned 67. (doesn't happen often.
With the recent trashing of Austin Bible Church....which seems a very challenging wooded course and the history of Iron Hill in Delaware and Renny in NC getting dinged for being too challenging (Long fair but unforgiving fairways w trees) I am starting to wonder if the top 10 rated courses are wussy friendly and never get the newbie trashing treatment. Maybe Noobs dont go out of there way to distant remote places like Paw Paw and Flip City....I realize the ratings mean nothing....Im just starting to think that Flip etc.. might be easy courses that are just well maintained.

According to the write-up, this course does not have multiple tees. Deer Lakes is difficult from the blue and manageable for a noob from the red. I agree that this rating you're talking about is VERY low, but I think it makes sense for great courses to be docked if they only cater to one type of player. Add multiple tees and those ratings will go up.

Edit-And while I don't find this 1.5 star rating helpful, I did think the 3.5 below it was helpful. But that 3.5 guy got trashed in helpfuls. HBB ftw there protecting the course rating?

 

[optidiscic]

Good points regarding multiple tees...but honestly...I don't think the local crowd really cares about short tees, winter tees, beginner tees, whatever you wanna call them.....I don't ever expect Nockamixon or some others to ever get top status it's near impossible to have a course appeal to those who want a challenge and beginners at once. Nocky is totally not eceiving it's fair rating 1/2 the reviews are from when it was just 14 holes...it's been 18 for over a yr. Then theres the 4 beginners who penalized it for being hard. I admit it has shortcomings in the multiple tee pad, difficult footing, and holds alot of water departments but it's a great course that is on the verge of obscurity on DGCR if another couple Noobs play it and trash it on here this summer. it is my corner of the world and don't want people to miss out on a great challenging course....I am sure there are a lot of courses that don't get the rating they deserve nationwide that I'm not aware because they got docked for difficulty.

 

[Dave242]

According to the write-up, this course does not have multiple tees. Deer Lakes is difficult from the blue and manageable for a noob from the red. I agree that this rating you're talking about is VERY low, but I think it makes sense for great courses to be docked if they only cater to one type of player. Add multiple tees and those ratings will go up.

Good points regarding multiple tees...but honestly...I don't think the local crowd really cares about short tees, winter tees, beginner tees, whatever you wanna call them.....

I popped over here after posting on the "Ratings are #1" thread and saw this. Beable, I see that you find multiple tees very important in what you deem as being a top notch course (Idlewild does not have them nor do many highly renowned courses).

I think Opti is correct. In my observation, on most courses I've played that have multiple tees, all the erosion and wear seems to be around one set of tees. Granted, my 250 courses played is only a tiny fraction of all courses out there, so I am open to hearing other observations.

If my observations are close to being correct, this leads to the obvious conclusion that multiple tees are really not that important to the DG playing public. But, I assume that will not stop many reviewers on this site from being convinced otherwise and rating otherwise.