Johnny Conservative
Banned
To me, she is not gaining any competitive advantage by being off by less than a foot. I would not have called any penalty. Now if there was a tree or something she was trying to get around I might say something.
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Are these foot faults?
- Thread starter numbernine
- Start date
The advantage isn't in the placement of her foot, it's in the attempt to place the foot correctly. It's less a pure physical advantage, and more of a psychological/mental advantage. And it definitely can affect the quality of a shot.
Anyone who doesn't recognize that, IMO, has never actually made a concerted effort to be precise in their foot placement during a fairway run-up.
A) She's gaining a competitive advantage by ignoring her foot placement and focusing on everything else that goes into making a shot. Much easier to throw the exact line you want if you aren't worrying about where your foot lands
B) Why does everyone always want to bring "competitive advantage" into discussions on calling violations? What does that have to do with anything?
Johnny Conservative
Banned
Guilty as charged. But then again, I don't play for a living, I play for fun.
To address your first point....I never thought about it that way and I see what you mean.
Johnny Conservative
Banned
Because to me, this "violation" is minor, I did not feel that her foot placement helped her shot. But your first point, like the other post in response to my comment, is absolutely valid.
Yeah, I totally get what people mean when they say that, but I just don't agree with that line of reasoning. Its not a competitive advantage to smoke pot or drink during a round, but its still a violation. Its not a competitive advantage to show up late, not hole out, not mark your lie correctly, ect. ect. That doesn't mean it isn't against the rules, or that the rules don't need to be enforced because you weren't gaining an advantage by breaking the rules.
Johnny Conservative
Banned
Totally agree.....but as for the foot fault, my initial reaction is that she was not that far away, I don't feel it was blatant. So I would never had called her on it, or any competitor. I would argue that not holing out does give you a competitive advantage though..lol.
paulw
Eagle Member
none of them is a foot fault
I always forget how attractive Cat is when she plays... I should've watched more of the Ledgestone coverage.
To me, the first shot is questionable. It's hard to draw a line from the basket to her mark based off the camera angle. The second shot seems a bit more obvious that she was not quite right....However I still wouldn't call it. Unless it's obvious that someone is intentionally doing something, or trying to gain a competitive advantage, mistakes happen
To me, the first shot is questionable. It's hard to draw a line from the basket to her mark based off the camera angle. The second shot seems a bit more obvious that she was not quite right....However I still wouldn't call it. Unless it's obvious that someone is intentionally doing something, or trying to gain a competitive advantage, mistakes happen
bballr4567
Eagle Member
You know what I noticed in watching the video. How many times Weese actual stands and delivers.
Cat had quite a few odd foot placements in the whole final 9. I'm sure that they are watching her closer now.
Cat had quite a few odd foot placements in the whole final 9. I'm sure that they are watching her closer now.
The problem is that when a player is habitually questionable in their foot placement, it's a matter of them not intentionally doing something, with that something being making a good enough effort to hit their mark properly on each throw. That in itself is arguably a competitive advantage, especially if other players are making a concerted effort to hit their mark. Or, like bballr4567 points out, they're standing and delivering in order to ensure legality.
Major Tomahawk
Eagle Member
The second one was definitely a foot fault.
JohnE McCray had an obvious foot fault in the final 9 when he didn't give a .....
His marker disc was flipping all over the place on his release. Did anyone else see that?
Some people get called on that stuff and others do not. It's almost a popularity contest sort of thing.
JohnE McCray had an obvious foot fault in the final 9 when he didn't give a .....
His marker disc was flipping all over the place on his release. Did anyone else see that?
Some people get called on that stuff and others do not. It's almost a popularity contest sort of thing.
lyleoross
* Ace Member *
Uli gets away with it because while they are obvious in video, they aren't in real life. The sequence is fast during the putt and he steps through so it's hard to see when his follow foot hits the ground relative to his release. My observation, based on video, is that he foot faults on that putt about half the time, but I've only looked at it about a dozen times. If that number is accurate, that's a problem. Getting away with something only because it's a tough call to make based on the speed of the shot works, but it certainly is unfair
Good point. If it's a habitual thing, then I may make a comment. Maybe not even a formal warning, just a friendly reminder
Both look impossible to tell with the naked eye. It looks like her toes start on the LoP then her heel pivot takes her off the LoP. The only way to tell if she's legal or not is to see if the disc left her hand before the toes left the LoP and if you can see that in real time you are a ****ing chameleon.
Stand and deliver wouldn't fix this unless players pivoted flatly behind their mark, keeping all supporting points in contact with the playing surface. So most anything other than flat, sandy ground would lead to dubious stances.
Stand and deliver wouldn't fix this unless players pivoted flatly behind their mark, keeping all supporting points in contact with the playing surface. So most anything other than flat, sandy ground would lead to dubious stances.
bballr4567
Eagle Member
Brother Dave, stand and deliver would work because only a sliver has to be on the line of play 30cm behind your lie. Not hard to do when you stand and deliver.
Stand and deliver isn't a practical solution as most people do not use it as their primary throwing method.
looking a those videos, it is hard to believe there was any intent at all. They were wide open shots, no obstacles in the way. I may have given a friendly reminder, that's all.
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