thumber_guy
Newbie
For a public course that is all par 3, what is the best range of hole lengths in order to maximize usage by both casual and skilled players?
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Hi, Illinois and nearby golfers. Does anyone know of a golf course in Illinois converted to disc golf that serves alcohol? We have a venue that is looking for precedents. Thanks.
Hi, Illinois and nearby golfers. Does anyone know of a golf course in Illinois converted to disc golf that serves alcohol? We have a venue that is looking for precedents. Thanks.
Hey John... I'm sure that this has been discussed before, but I haven't found it. How important is it for you when designing a par 4 for that hole to Eagle-able for the player of that skill? For example, would you favor a par 4 hole on a blue level course that say a 950 rated player has 3-5% chance of eagle? I'm saying landing at 50-80 feet out and then draining that monster putt... Not exactly a throw in, but just a great drive and a great putt.
For a public course that is all par 3, what is the best range of hole lengths in order to maximize usage by both casual and skilled players?
Hey John... I'm sure that this has been discussed before, but I haven't found it. How important is it for you when designing a par 4 for that hole to Eagle-able for the player of that skill? For example, would you favor a par 4 hole on a blue level course that say a 950 rated player has 3-5% chance of eagle? I'm saying landing at 50-80 feet out and then draining that monster putt... Not exactly a throw in, but just a great drive and a great putt.
Good question! And along those same lines, how many par three's on a typical course do you design with intentionally makable ace lines, if any?
Why Illinois? Do they have golf-specific alcohol rules or something?
Hi, Goose. This is a great question and an important one.
I have made very few par fours that are eagle-able by the skill level they're designed for. I know not all designers will agree with me here, but I consider a true par four to be one that requires two good shots to get a putt. For the kind of hole you have in mind, if Blue players can get to 50-80', chances are they can get to 100-150', which -- unless there are a lot of trees with tight but fair gaps or some other salient features -- means your looking at NAGS (Not A Golf Shot).
When I do a deliberately eagle-able par four, it requires a great shot to get to the green, and any other available lines require two legitimate shots. Hole #2 at Selah Lakeside is a great example, because of the strategy options it offers. Hole #3 at Texas Twist is probably an easier-to-understand example. I'm including a copy of the tee sign.
Clearing the water requires a 400' drive, and the fact that the basket is on a little bit of an isthmus means that a drive that's 400' long but right or left will be wet. And anyone who can throw extra long to be safe will be looking at a long putt with water behind, so you really have to earn your eagle.
If you take the two-shot route through the woods, even a really good drive leaves you with a 200' approach up and over the dam and a substantial water carry. So a birdie is a really good score.
That's my basic philosophy of par fours. I have done holes designed as two legitimate shots where an amazing drive can get you a long eagle putt. One example is #15 at WR Jackson, which Dave Feldberg nailed a few times at early tournaments there. I think other superstars have hit it since then.
On the other hand, I work very hard to make sure that my par fives are eagle-able. Doing that while avoiding NAGS zones is tricky business, but I feel like I've been pretty successful, and I continue to refine my techniques. I did one last week, in fact, that is probably the most elegant I've ever done. And both Strawn and Frost Valley will have multiple par fives that I really like.
Hope that answers your question.
John - have you designed any 6 baskets that are say - 6 par 5 teepads, 6 par 4s, 6 par 3s? Or 27 hole 9/9/9 splits like that? Or any? I'm thinking about building something like that in the future - and I'm wondering if you found any particular little challenges in it?
John, I look forward to your articles in Discgolfer magazine every month, as well as your insightful discourse on this thread and your website. Thank you for taking time to advance the worthy cause of good course design.
I would really appreciate an update regarding the status of the Live Oak City Park Complex in TX? The reason I ask is I'm going to have a day to kill in San Antonio next month, and after reading about it on DGCR and your website, I am really excited to play these course(s), but it seems like the layout is in flux and based on many reviews, Im concerned about navigation since i have no idea whats actually there right now. Maps on this site are from 2013, and the last update on Houckdesign just says construction has stalled as of 2014. Do you have a more current course map or info that you can share to help a first-timer play these courses?
I thought of PMing you with this request, but figure others here would be interested to know about this