Bracing and power pocket Check...or is it?

[Snaques]

So I've been playing for two years now and have been practicing for a decent amount as well. On top of that I've been looking for info and trying to learn as much as possible while not on the field.

I feel like I know what I should do, but am not quite there yet. Actually, I'm at a point where I can comfortably throw 350' and max out somewhere at 380'-390'. However, I also feel that with my build as well as my athletic and motoric skill set, I should be pushing past 400', if not more.

I've tried to put emphasis on bracing and finding the power pocket. Actually based on the following image one might even think that I've done that:



Unfortunately, that is not the case since I'm very rarely feeling the snap and the distance is not there. So I was hoping you could check the following clip and let me know what I'm missing.

https://youtu.be/n6ZdvZFxfck

Opening the shoulders too early? Not shifting the weight enough? Pulling too early?

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Your long stride is robbing your ability to generate more power with your hips.

Off arm (non throwing) can help by coming in tighter. Put hand over your pelvis, and it'll allow you to brace shoulders against pectoral muscles.

 

[rickles]

Upper body is already tilted forward too early at that point and yes opening too early IMO.

 

[geoloseth]

I would suggest the following:

1. Shorten up your plant step (~1ft.) It keeps your hips from being able to fire quickly.

2. Bring your left side through the throw with more force. It appears that your left arm/shoulder almost slow your rotation down so you're right arm is trying to accelerate, but your left arm is decelerating. If you can't get your body out of the way of the disc then it will leave you pushing the disc out instead of pulling/ejecting the disc out of your 'center'. This is a huge energy robber during a throw.

 

[slowplastic]

You do a reach back too early and then drag your extended arm forward. Check out SW22's Door Frame Drill video. You should "move around the disc" so that your forward speed is countered by the disc's backward speed and it nearly stays still from a side view. Instead you do a reach back with your arm while X-stepping, and with your extended arm, go into the plant and then bring the disc forward with your arm.

Something looks off about the brace too, it's hard for me to tell from the side. I think your left hip/knee are directed to your outside (left) of the plant foot rather than into/behind it directly targetwards. This is why you kind of drift around your plant in an arc with the throw, rather than throwing with a recoil at the brace and having any extra momentum pull your body around further in the follow through well after release.

 

[Snaques]

Lots of good stuff already, thanks a bunch.

The summer is pretty much done, but I should still find a field session or two per week indoors or outdoors when the weather permits. I've played around with a shorter stride, but that seems to mess up my synch. Probably should slow down a bit until I have that figured out.

The "moving around the disc" is one concept that sounded interesting, but I figured its more of a result than an actual target. I could still give it a shot and see if it changes something else to make things click.

As a general thing, I feel I lack some sharpness but somehow the posture makes it difficult to really rip it.

EDIT: Oh btw, I seem to do very well with putters and mids, but struggle with drivers. I've managed to get putters up to 290 and mids to 320. Somehow the throw feels a lot more crisp with those.

 

[rickles]

The "moving around the disc" is one concept that sounded interesting, but I figured its more of a result than an actual target.

Another way to try is to "reachback" as your putting your plant foot down for the plant...helped my timing and really is the same thing described above.

 

[slowplastic]

The "moving around the disc" is one concept that sounded interesting, but I figured its more of a result than an actual target. I could still give it a shot and see if it changes something else to make things click.

It really is a perspective/target thing, not just what it looks like afterwards. It's like trying to punch something vs. punch through something. Your focus changes so what you do changes.

Check out SW22's video on it (Door Frame Drill). A fun/weird way to try it also is to have a disc in your hand, stand beside a wall, and have the edge of the disc on the wall. Take your X-step parallel to the wall (slowly/whatever speed...you're not going to throw) and keep the disc in the same place. It doesn't have to be this extreme during a throw but you'll see your perspective and focus change compared to going through your steps and just reaching back at some point.

I also agree with what was said about reaching back fully at the plant, rather than before. This is the true target...get everything fully loaded/coiled up as you're starting the big transfer.

 

[sidewinder22]

I agree with most of everything that has been said. You do hit your max reachback too early with the arm so the sequence in which you turn things back and rhythm is off. Also last step/stride is too long or too open, so your knees end up really far apart(splits/horsestance) and the front foot is turned forward so you can't shift your weight from behind you more compactly/efficiently/forcefully. You are effectively turning everything before your weight shifts, or reducing your effective reachback depending on how you look at things. Typically the longer the stride, the more turned backward the front foot needs to be, Schusterick being a prime example of the backwards foot/crush the can.

The other related thing is that your rear foot begins to move to the left before your arm finishes, so it's not countering completely. When your arm finishes into your back, your rear foot should still be behind to the right of the front leg, so the rear foot and throwing hand are as far apart as possible winding through your core. You should hit a recoil and snap back up. Also your rear arm is dragging behind the throw, slowing your rotation and weight down. There's a couple different ways to move the rear arm/shoulder, for you it might be best to get your hand inside your rear thigh and the elbow in tight to the body(almost elbow your ribs), so your off arm/shoulder is forward(weight) and out of the way before you start swinging the disc.

 

[Snaques]

I was so excited by all the feedback that I went out yesterday, despite all the darkness and 0C temperatures, for 3hrs to try these things out.

I feel like the moving around the disc and keeping the left hand close are fairly easy to implement. The two biggest challenges were shortening the stride and especially having the left foot finish toward the plant foot instead of rotating around it.

The problem with shorter stride was finding the correct spot to "freeze the disc position" for "moving around the disc". I would either leave it too late and lose most of the reachback or start too early and end up again with the long last step.

With the left foot positioning, I feel like the left leg blocks me from rotating my hips and makes me feel quite clumsy. In extreme case it felt like the icehockey slapshot, but the problem is that in hockey you don't follow through as far. While throwing my follow through would stop short and affect the power I can create.

I hope I get to test these things out a bit more soon and ideally get an updated video for review.

 

[PWaggoner]

Are you rotating your palm down after the hit?

 

[Snaques]

Are you rotating your palm down after the hit?

Not on purpose at least. Never heard of any active manupulation of your palm position during the throw. I only know that you shouldn't roll over your wrist, but that has never been an issue for me.

 

[PWaggoner]

Not on purpose at least. Never heard of any active manupulation of your palm position during the throw. I only know that you shouldn't roll over your wrist, but that has never been an issue for me.

Watch how alot of pros slap themsleves in the back. You cant straight arm it and make it happens. Have to rotate palm down after the throw to allow it. Itll let you accelerate threw the hit and teach your body it doesnt have to hold back to not hurt your elbow from jamming.

 

[HyzerUniBomber]

Rotating the palm under happens well after the disc ejection. Unless you have extreme flexibility in your shoulders, it's required to allow the arm to bend.

 

[ash81]

Rotating the palm under happens well after the disc ejection. Unless you have extreme flexibility in your shoulders, it's required to allow the arm to bend.

This is one of the things that always confused me. Is this the key turn? I avoided it because I worked so hard to correct a wrist roll. Don't think I recall seeing anyone mention the timing on it. A new thing just clicked.

 

[ash81]

Watch how alot of pros slap themsleves in the back. You cant straight arm it and make it happens. Have to rotate palm down after the throw to allow it. Itll let you accelerate threw the hit and teach your body it doesnt have to hold back to not hurt your elbow from jamming.

I've noticed that tons, but never understood. It eluded me how they could follow through like that when my arm would brake.

Between that and not shifting weight completely off the back foot I knew I was missing out on potential power. Again, like a brake on the whole system.

 

[Snaques]

Watch how alot of pros slap themsleves in the back. You cant straight arm it and make it happens. Have to rotate palm down after the throw to allow it. Itll let you accelerate threw the hit and teach your body it doesnt have to hold back to not hurt your elbow from jamming.

Never really put much thought into this even though I've seen it hundreds of times in tourney videos. One more thing to add to my list of things to-do. :thmbup:

I'm really quite astonished by the amount of details, that really have a substantial effect, you have discovered here. I've been looking at things from way too far (macro scale).

 

[PWaggoner]

This is one of the things that always confused me. Is this the key turn? I avoided it because I worked so hard to correct a wrist roll. Don't think I recall seeing anyone mention the timing on it. A new thing just clicked.

I dont think those are the same thing. The key turn happens right before the hit, allowing you to hold on easier and achieve the full hit. The rotating of the palm happens after the disc is gone.

Im not a "full hitter" maybe half hitter. I havent unlocked the key turn.

 

[sidewinder22]

With the left foot positioning, I feel like the left leg blocks me from rotating my hips and makes me feel quite clumsy. In extreme case it felt like the icehockey slapshot, but the problem is that in hockey you don't follow through as far. While throwing my follow through would stop short and affect the power I can create.

 

[slowplastic]

The problem with shorter stride was finding the correct spot to "freeze the disc position" for "moving around the disc". I would either leave it too late and lose most of the reachback or start too early and end up again with the long last step.

Don't worry about this until it's at your back hip about...you can likely do a pump forward with the disc while stepping to stay in balance. Watch this vid of McBeth, he pumps the disc then when it goes back to his left hip you can put your cursor on it and it stays in the same place until he throws. Basically on just the last step it stays in the same place and his body shifts forward.