Courses that Force a Complete Game

[Stardoggy]

Dangit, now I'm going to be thinking about Highbridge all day. Goodbye, productiveness.

 

[Dan Ensor]

West Lake Park - Iowa
Rollin Ridge - WI
Bowling Green Technical College - Kentucky

Just a few of them that I have played that I needed everything in my bag to complete the course.

I just got on to say West Lake. And I only played some pussy 18 hole.

I was going to say Rollin' Ridge, as well. From long bombs and elevation to left, straight, and right...it pretty much has it all. The only thing it doesn't really have is water hazards, except for hole 2.

I don't think water is a necessity of requiring a complete game. You don't really need a different shot to get over water.

I would hope most of the 4.5+ rated courses would qualify. Perhaps excepting a few whose lofty rank is based on amazing scenery or amenities.

Unless "complete game" includes rollers, which eliminates a lot of wooded and rugged courses.

A complete game includes rollers. I use rollers a lot on wooded/rugged courses, and wooded courses are the ones that made me develop a forehand escape roller. Wooded courses are the reason I developed a backhand roller drive (low ceilings). And a lot of more open courses don't really force a forehand over a turnover or vice versa.

I know of a couple fairly highly rated courses that have really tight fairways, but that don't force a complete game. OBs etc. make the course challenging and fun, but you can throw over them or around them.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Sounds like you would LOVE Woodland Greens at HB...

 

[bradharris]

I don't think water is a necessity of requiring a complete game. You don't really need a different shot to get over water.

Water carries are more of a mental test than a physical one.

 

[b-mart]

Of the courses I've played, I'd have to say Bud Pell. Long, short, right, left, up, down, open, technical, into the woods, out of the woods... That course is a blast and tests everything that you have.

 

[Horsman]

I just got on to say West Lake. And I only played some pussy 18 hole..

West Lake is such a fun course thats test every part of your game.

 

[Rockwell]

When I was learning to play, Mars Hill College course was a great teacher. If you want to score well you've got to learn up,down, right, left and straight. Short and long. Open and wooded.

 

[Toro71]

When I was learning to play, Mars Hill College course was a great teacher. If you want to score well you've got to learn up,down, right, left and straight. Short and long. Open and wooded.

Plus the lesson of, how to land the disc on uneven ground. So much of that course is about making sure you're landing at the best angle/spin, or else roll away into the next county.

 

[Dave242]

This is a great question and one I'm surprised I have never seen asked. Thanks for coming up with it. It is a very hard one to answer though, since I do not know if there is a definition or standard for "complete game".....or a complete game for whom.....for what skill level?

I would say that in 18 par-3 holes (one throw required to get into putting range), it is next to impossible to provide a test for a complete game. So, it takes a course with several real Par-4's and Par-5's to get close.

Then, the thing with these multi-throw holes is that the designer cannot as easily/readily dictate a throw (or a line) on most 2nd/3rd drives. So, to play these holes well you do indeed need a complete game at your disposal.....but your complete game might not get tested in any given round as it all depends where your drive lands. Of course, wooded par-4's and -5's offer the most/best in this regard.

Most normal courses I can end up scoring just as well playing with 3-4 discs as when I carry my whole bag (or I find myself only having used 3-4 discs the entire round). I love it when I come off a course having used a bunch of the specialty discs I carry.

Scanning my list of courses played, here is my candidate list of 30 - ranked by my rating/grading:
100 - Winter Park
98 - Fox Chase, IDGC - Steady Ed Headrick Memorial
97 - Nevin Park DGC, Leviathan, Highbridge Hills - The Bear
96 - Magnolia DGC, Camden Park - II
95 - East Roswell Park
94 - Foothills DGC, Charlie Vettiner Park,Castle Hayne Park, Moraine State Park
93 - Renaissance Park - Original, Renaissance Park - Gold, Lemon Lake County Park - Silver, Brown Deer DGC, Highbridge Hills - Blueberry Hill
92 - Pyramids, Highbridge Hills - Woodland Greens
91 - Hornets Nest Park - Original
90 - Hornets Nest Park - Web, Bradley Center DGC, Flyboy Aviation
89 - Maple Hill DGC (very dated - 2006)
88 - Idlewild, Bradford Park
86 - West Lake Park, Eastway Park
85 - IDGC - WR Jackson Memorial DGC


I love this sort of thing, so I'm going to spend a little time analyzing and ranking this list on how they test my overall game.....base on my D (300' controlled/consistent/accurate drive, 360' max)

 

[DavidSauls]

I guess is comes down to definitions. What's a "complete game"? Surely it's a variety of hyzer and anhyzer throws, for various distances. I'd be inclined to say it's a combination of forehand and backhand skills, elevation on drives, and elevation on putts. Distance, too, which requires at least some fairly open holes where distance is rewarded.

Rollers, overhand throws, and trick shots take "completeness" to another level. One question would be whether a course really forces you to learn these skills, or merely allows you to.

 

[DavidSauls]

I would say that in 18 par-3 holes (one throw required to get into putting range), it is next to impossible to provide a test for a complete game. So, it takes a course with several real Par-4's and Par-5's to get close.

Then, the thing with these multi-throw holes is that the designer cannot as easily/readily dictate a throw (or a line) on most 2nd/3rd drives. So, to play these holes well you do indeed need a complete game at your disposal.....but your complete game might not get tested in any given round as it all depends where your drive lands. Of course, wooded par-4's and -5's offer the most/best in this regard.

Excellent point. Judging distance, and executing a shot you have not practiced and grooved (because you've never been in that particular spot before), is definitely part of a complete game.

 

[kevdiv48]

West Lake Park in Davenport, IA. The distance itself is pretty daunting, but to be able to score well you need to able to control and shape very long lines. The water and wind hazards don't make it any easier.

 

[Steve West]

Making throws is not all there is to disc golf. Part of a complete game is making good decisions. So, a course cannot be said to test the complete game unless it provides temptation to make bad decisions.

 

[Dan Ensor]

I guess is comes down to definitions. What's a "complete game"? Surely it's a variety of hyzer and anhyzer throws, for various distances. I'd be inclined to say it's a combination of forehand and backhand skills, elevation on drives, and elevation on putts. Distance, too, which requires at least some fairly open holes where distance is rewarded.

Rollers, overhand throws, and trick shots take "completeness" to another level. One question would be whether a course really forces you to learn these skills, or merely allows you to.

By "force" I mean that someone can come by and consistently score better than you on a hole if they have a shot you don't. And I found that I was being consistently outscored by people with a forehand roller, so I developed one. My backhand roller puts me in a 2-3 spot on my course opener where most are looking at a 3-4. People with overhands defeat some obstacles others can't (easily).

But really, it's VERY subjective.

I agree that par 54 is tough to force a complete game; if possible. So I'll throw out another candidate: Ozark Mountain

Par 72; TIGHT!; you can bomb it; there's elevation up and down; goes every which way. One of my favorite courses.

 

[gdub58]

Almost said Idlewild, but too much randomness on 4-5 of the holes.

I think the "randomness" you cite is part of what would qualify Idlewild, in that some of the holes require a high degree of course management and planning 1-2 shots in advance to score well. What Idlewild is really missing in requiring a complete game is the need to throw RH hyzer shots.

Of the courses I've played, I think Flyboy required the most complete and challenging range of shots to get the basket. About the only thing missing there was a number of fast greens like Idlewild or some of the Charlotte area courses have, but that gets into the mental side of it rather than whether you need a particular shot or have to use a variety of discs...

 

[notroman]

Ozark Mountain
Spencer-Davis
Nevin
Hornet's Nest

There's a bunch more, but those are the three I can think of off the top of my head that require me to throw a variety of shots and always remind me of the shots I need to work on. I have yet to play the IDGC courses; they are on my list to play. I've heard many great things about them. Pittsburgh area also comes to mind, but I haven't played there since 2009 so I'd like to return before I list any of them.

 

[kevinmzane]

I think North Ga. Canopy Tours was a pretty good one.
Also Jim Warner Memorial at the IDGC...all 3 of the courses there did a pretty good job but Warner challenged me more mentally and took some time to figure out how to play it well.

 

[Huckfreely]

Husdon Mills Monster

I put in a Toss for Hudson Mills Monster.
It's got plenty for all games.
Duce or Die. tight alleys, open par 4's, and wicked rough. Mental toughness is important.

 

[Dave242]

Here is my attempt at a complete list of skills a course needs to test.

But first I think the test needs to be dialed in to a specific throwing distance. For me, a 400' hole is good to have since it proves that I cannot throw 400' (and allows others to outscore me who have this skill). But if the majority of the course forces throws that require all sorts of shot shapes that also require 400' D to score well on.....then that course fails at really testing my other skills.

In my opinion holes should vary in effective length approximately +/-20% of the target D. So, for Blue level players, average golf D is around 340'.....so the majority of holes should vary between 275' and 400'.

For Blue the course should force these throws:
375-400' straight open-ish (2 of these per course)
325' straight open-ish
325' straight open-ish finishing R (rewards (RHBH or LHFH)
325' straight open-ish finishing L (rewards LHBH or RHFH)
300' R to L fairway curve finishing L
300' L to R fairway curve finishing R
300' R to L fairway curve finishing R (S-curve)
300' L to R fairway curve finishing L (S-curve)
275' tunnel straight (pinch points at over 12-16' wide at mind point)
275' tunnel curving R finishing right (pinch points at over 12-16' wide at mind point)
275' tunnel curving L finishing L (pinch points at over 12-16' wide at mind point)
275' tunnel curving R finishing L (pinch points at over 12-16' wide at mind point)
275' tunnel curving L finishing R (pinch points at over 12-16' wide at mind point)
Flat, uphill, and down hill versions of each.
Green types and other "course management" could/would be varied throughout.

As you see, there are around 14 variations, so to factor in terrain adequately, you need well over 24 holes (throw segments) to even consider calling a course a complete test of skills.

One other thought: IMO, rollers, thumbers, tomahawks, scoobies, etc are specialty shots that do not have to be tested per se. They come in handy and help out in scoring but there is such a huge variety of of shot shapes they add, that the number of permutations of holes one would need to test all of them is staggeringly huge (let alone extremely challenging to construct).

 

[Dave242]

2 skills I suck at that are essential are playing in wind and playing in the rain.

There is nothing that a course can do to provide these. Although open courses encourage the wind to come into play, there is nothing a course can do if it is calm (or dry). Also, certain areas of the country are more windy and/or rainy than others.....but even in those places there are plenty of calm and/or dry days.