crown point IN tournament...no jump putt?

[gkeberhart]

I was inside still taking registration that day during the players meeting so I didn't hear it but I am assuming Brian was the one that said that?

One a side note, if you are playing in a tournament please show up and register more than 10 min before the players meeting and bring your PDGA card with you, that does help out a lot in cutting down the chaos

 

[agapedad]

OK- so he said even your arm can't break the plane? Now that is ignorant!

 

[Dave242]

I have no idea what was said and the details and how things were framed, but the reality is that players call violations on themselves or on players in their group. I suppose if the TD is not playing, she/she could be a roving official and make calls too....and their can be other officials too roaming around making calls.

But, if players and officials do not call things like this that are spoken about in the players' meeting......who cares? Was anyone stroked because of this?

 

[agibson]

i think these are the same guys who run tournaments and allow shots from over a road but on a road is ob so anything they do i would take with a grain of salt...

At the risk of tangenting, what's the problem with this road rule?

A road's often OB as a safety issue. Why should that automatically make "across the road" OB?

If a pond's OB, it's not like the other side of the pond is OB - that's probably where the basket is!

 

[agibson]

it was announced at the players meeting that outside of 10 meters you could not cross the plan of the disc and if you did it would be a penalty. I was wondering what you all thought of this. the td read some rule about not crossing the plan of the disc but when I looked in the rule book it says as long as you have a supporting foot down behind the disc before you release the disc.

Too bad we don't have his exact wording.

All I see in the rules (at least the "Rules of Play") about a plane relates to the OB line - just the idea that the OB line is a vertical plane straight up and down (e.g. if you're in a tree the OB line still applies).

I really have little idea what he could be referencing re a plane.

Of course the basic point, as well described by mashnut, holds. You need to release the disc before establishing a supporting point beyond the disc, and also before abandoning your supporting point behind the marker.

I'm new, I'm not sure if I've seen illegal jump putts. I can certainly imagine them (jump-putt instead of putt-jump). I've definitely heard people describe illegal jump drives (jump off tee, then throw), in seeming ignorance that they were illegal.

 

[IHearChains]

At the risk of tangenting, what's the problem with this road rule?

A road's often OB as a safety issue. Why should that automatically make "across the road" OB?

If a pond's OB, it's not like the other side of the pond is OB - that's probably where the basket is!

Don't see too many other park users out on a pond. Other park users drive, walk, bike etc. on roads. Making the other side OB discourages throws in that direction, avoids conflict with other park users, and limits backups from waiting for strollers or dogwalkers to clear the area.

 

[agibson]

Don't see too many other park users out on a pond. Other park users drive, walk, bike etc. on roads. Making the other side OB discourages throws in that direction, avoids conflict with other park users, and limits backups from waiting for strollers or dogwalkers to clear the area.

OK - I think I hear you. You're not saying that their road interpretation is illegal. You're just saying it's unwise. I suppose I'd have to see the holes in question. But, from my one trip to Lemon, it seemed like the majority of the use of that part of the park might actually be for disc golf.

At Rogers Lakewood we have disc golf areas with roads running through them. One of them's not particularly heavily used, but cars are allowed on it. It seems prudent to make it OB - but no particular problem to throw across it.

 

[bsu12345]

No. A supporting point cannot be past the lie. But almost every throw players make break the plane with their arm before release.....except for maybe some crazy over hand or side arm throws

where does it say this at? just wondering

 

[Dave242]

where does it say this at? just wondering

I was responding to this discussion started with this post about "breaking the plane" (imagine an invisible big pane of glass extending straight upwards from behind your marker disc perpendicular to the direction the target is in).

I was agreeing that "breaking the plane" before release being illegal is non-sensical since we all break the plane with our arm when we throw.

The TD then came out at the player's meeting and said that no one could break the plane of their lie unless they had already released the disc. Ridiculous.

For your convenience, here is the rule quoted upthread about where supporting points must be before the release of the disc:

here is the rule for anyone that needs clarity:

803.04 Stance, Subsequent to Teeing
A. When the disc is released, a player must: (1) Have at least one supporting point that is in contact with the playing surfaceon the line of play and within 30 centimters directly behind the marker disc (except as specified in 803.04 E); and, (2) have no supporting point contact with the marker disc or any object closer to the hole than the rear edge of the marker disc; and, (3) have all of his or her supporting points inbounds.
B. Stepping past the marker disc is permitted after the disc is released, except when putting within 10 meters.

 

[gkeberhart]

From what I am gathering it sounds like Brian (I am assuming that he gave the players meeting talk) was stating that rule; that being said, I think his choice of words may have been misleading to what he was actually intending to say.

 

[Dave242]

That is what I was assuming. Not everyone remembers their geometry class from high school perfectly, so I can easily see how someone either stated or heard something in a confusing way when they said/heard something about a "plane" when they meant a line on the ground.

I could easily envision a TD telling players that they are better off not jump- or walk-putting than getting called for an illegal stance if they do not execute that putt correctly. That is good advice and is much different than making up new ground rules on the fly.

 

[gkeberhart]

yea it sounds like if he had added "with a supporting contact point" after the breaking the plane part it would have cleared up the confusion. I read the first post as the rule is stated in the book, but I also see where they could easily confuse it too...and I play around Brian a lot so I understand what he says better than most

 

[bsu12345]

at the meeting he never stated the rule number or anything from what he read from a piece of paper, not a rule book...and he read no part of the rule everyone is quoting

 

[bsu12345]

it saved them some money on spray paint

 

[bsu12345]

this isn't about jump putting but it seems the same people who think jump/step putting is illegal don't know these rules as well....

http://www.pdga.com/demonstrating-balance-putting

 

[jtencer]

Yup. B - Tier.
Indiana State Championships.


Here's what it comes down to -
The kid leading the series does a putt jump from outside of the 10 meter circle. Dudes from a certain town don't like the putt jump and complained to the TD. The TD then came out at the player's meeting and said that no one could break the plane of their lie unless they had already released the disc. Ridiculous.

The rule is easy to understand. And in spite of several of us arguing the rule, with rule book in hand, on the course, the complainers were not hearing it. They even went so far as to say that "good players don't use it." When I brought up Feldberg and Climo, they said that I couldn't use them as examples. Heh.

Anyway, it's all sour grapes from one or two players. And somehow, the TD just didn't know the rule. here is the rule for anyone that needs clarity:

803.04 Stance, Subsequent to Teeing
A. When the disc is released, a player must: (1) Have at least one supporting point that is in contact with the playing surfaceon the line of play and within 30 centimters directly behind the marker disc (except as specified in 803.04 E); and, (2) have no supporting point contact with the marker disc or any object closer to the hole than the rear edge of the marker disc; and, (3) have all of his or her supporting points inbounds.
B. Stepping past the marker disc is permitted after the disc is released, except when putting within 10 meters.

It sounds to me like the TD tried to explain the rule correctly and did so poorly since what he said makes body position matter and not just your ground contact.

He didn't say anything that restricts what you do after you release the disc, at least not in what you quoted.

 

[Clonan]

Was this on Saturday or Sunday?

I remember the players meeting on Saturday the TD discussed this rule. I was thinking to myself "I've been playing for less than a year and only 2 tournament and this seems basic to ME."

I remember the guy explaining that outside of 10m you can step through AFTER the disc has been released, Not take a step over your marker then then throw. He kept emphasising that after part. Then he said you couldn't step through within the 10m. It was pretty easy stuff. Nobody seemed to complain or challenge him.

 

[Dave242]

this^^

I spoke to Brian at the Players Party at Worlds and mentioned this thread to him. He said not a single person has come to him (in person, phone or email) with questions or complaints about this.

He obviously knows the rules just fine and if someone does not understand the explanation or is confused or thinks he is wrong it would have been the mature thing to simply contact him. He is still wide open to hear from anyone with issues/questions.

It is very troubling (but seems more and more par for the course) that people hide behind their keyboards and rabble-rouse rather that being mature and dealing with things man to man.

We are all in this cool fringe sport subculture together and one of the coolest things (to me at least) is that it unites people of all walks of life in a fun and healthy way.

More wagging, less barking my brothers!

 

[bsu12345]

this was Saturday and for what it is worth I don't want to waste my time or energy contacting him because I understand the rules. I will save my money and not play any tournaments there. and I have played more enough tournaments and this no jump putt, no crossing your marker until it is released any where else. I'm no dissing the tds there I respect what they do just a head up to anyone who jump putts that may play a tournament there.