Dead Straight Fairway Driver with no Fade

[geoloseth1]

I still say go with a seasoned leopard. The way I see it you want something that starts out understable enough that you can hyzer flip it flat but it won't flip past flat. And if you go with dx then the LSS will wear out before the HSS. Thus you end up with a disc that will go straight and finish straight.

 

[love2dg]

Its weird when people talk about elite X-XL giving less fade but when I watched my friend throw bad fade all day. Also checked out SOLF but didn't work for him. I was confused after giving him advice what to buy.

I got Star TL as I throw great shots then I told my friend that he should have got TL that nothing beats great drives with little fade. He was like damn, I should have listen to you. I guess, I follow whenever people make comments can help out the game but he doesn't.

 

[JR]

The air does not care what plastic the disc is made from. Two discs of exactly the same shape with fly the same. Period.

Are you saying that friction isn't an issue with discs? Not in my limited experience but I can't attribute all the differences between plastics to material and friction alone. That might be difficult to test. Are there any discs that are exactly the same shape in different plastics?

During WW2 when Germans were bombing London with V1 flying bombs some air defense units stripped paint from the fighters for better visibility to friendlies, lighter and faster planes but also for lessened friction for even more speed. Some waxed the planes for even less friction. Sorry don't remember where I read it. I think Tempests were included and if I had to guess I think the Tempests didn't have laminar flow wings.

Metal shine didn't help when USAAF pilots still shot at V1s from long range when Brits were at close range closing in for a kill. Don't remember if Americans managed to shoot down Brits but they did damage Brits by direct fire and exploding V1s when Brits were in vicinity. The explosions were vicious. Close to as vicious as itchy trigger fingers of glory seekers... British fighter pilots weren't exactly thrilled. With friends like that...

 

[geoloseth1]

I don't know if the friction caused by air is as significant with a disc flying at 40 to 70 mph as it would be with a object moving at 400+ mph.

On a side note if you ant to get a kick out of WWII weapons look up information on bat bombs. The u.s. Had planned to use bats to seek out buildings then explode with napalm setting everything on fire.

 

[Scoot_er]

I don't know if the friction caused by air is as significant with a disc flying at 40 to 70 mph as it would be with a object moving at 400+ mph.

On a side note if you ant to get a kick out of WWII weapons look up information on bat bombs. The u.s. Had planned to use bats to seek out buildings then explode with napalm setting everything on fire.

Weird weapons is a cool show.

 

[thechamp]

This is way off topic.
I used to fly remote control sailplanes and a perfectly glassy wing surface did not work the best when you were looking to produce lift. We would apply a "trip strip" to the top of the wing. The trip strip could be as simple as a small strip of tape running the length of the wing applied on the top. The trip strip would prevent the air from "sticking" to the top of the wing. Air sticking to the top of the wing would create drag, making the plane slower and deminishing some of its lift.

 

[garublador1]

Two discs of exactly the same shape with fly the same. Period.

What about density? Wouldn't a disc made out of a more dense material have a higher ratio of weight around the rim to weight in the flight plate? Also, you're just talking about new discs. The way a disc wears (how much it warps from hits, how scuffed it gets when it hits things, how that scuffing wears down from use, etc.) depends heavily on the material. Both of those would explain why there seems to be the biggest difference in wide rimmed drivers.

It should also be noted that the recommendation for DX plastic mostly applies to people learning to throw and shape lines. Once you have the skills it's definitely possible to get good, controlable flights out of discs in high end plastic.

 

[EBK357]

I go with a STAR TL

+1 FOR ME

 

[JR]

It should also be noted that the recommendation for DX plastic mostly applies to people learning to throw and shape lines. Once you have the skills it's definitely possible to get good, controlable flights out of discs in high end plastic.

That I certainly do agree with but there's a slight difference that on tight courses with bends in tunnels especially can mean a world of difference. DX discs usually can retain anhyzer better at lower speeds than the same disc in harder plastic.

 

[JR]

I don't know if the friction caused by air is as significant with a disc flying at 40 to 70 mph as it would be with a object moving at 400+ mph.

On a side note if you ant to get a kick out of WWII weapons look up information on bat bombs. The u.s. Had planned to use bats to seek out buildings then explode with napalm setting everything on fire.

If you put your hand out of the window of a car at 60 MPH you'll notice that the drag is quite substantial. Discs are more aerodynamic put you could stick a disc out of the window too. Don't let go because it might hurt someone. I wouldn't want to see a disc heading for me thrown from a car coming towards me.

The difference in speeds is huge between planes and discs but at disc speeds the drag isn't negligible either. Or we'd be throwing hundreds of feet farther. Drag and gravity are the limiting factors to throwing distance after the disc leaves the fingers.

I really don't know what's going on with air passing discs and how large the impact of friction is plastic vs plastic. I don't even know how the air passes over discs. Laminar vs turbulent or semi laminar like P51s in WW2. The first production aircraft to have somewhat laminar flow in the wings.

While the British Spitfire was a point defense fighter with the same engine in metric measurements (Britain using metrics in engineering in WW2 get a clue?) dimensions without the slight modifications of a P51 Merlin due to having an outdated measuring system the Mustang went from the UK to Berlin with the decreased drag of the wings being more aerodynamically sound.

The Spit had a higher critical mach number thanks to the costly wing tip design and in 1942 a photographic reconnaissance version achieved the highest speed on WW2 for props in a 30000+ ft dive after the pilot blacked out over Africa.

I know about the incendiary bats. They were kept cold so that they wouldn't be awake and accidentally set themselves and the carrying plane alight. The idea was for them to heat up enough to gain consciousness and flying ability during the fall from the plane to the target which supposedly was done to increase the probability of the bat landing closer to the target before the pre PETA era bat BBQ started.

 

[Bradley Walker]

The air does not care what plastic the disc is made from. Two discs of exactly the same shape with fly the same. Period.

Are you saying that friction isn't an issue with discs?

Take a Star disc. Throw it. Sand it. Throw it. No difference.

It is the shape.

Density?

Please explain how you get two discs of the same weight and exact same shape with two dissimilar dense materials.

 

[JR]

The air does not care what plastic the disc is made from. Two discs of exactly the same shape with fly the same. Period.

Are you saying that friction isn't an issue with discs?

Take a Star disc. Throw it. Sand it. Throw it. No difference.

It is the shape.

Density?

Please explain how you get two discs of the same weight and exact same shape with two dissimilar dense materials.

I didn't bring up density garu did. Finnish importer of Inova told me that Discwing QK is made in 16x what exactly I don't remember. For heavier weights a weighting agent is added. I think I've heard elsewhere that weighting agents are usually blended in with the material before molding. If I recall correctly in QK the weighting agent is added to the wing only. Could be false info.

Primo plastic can't be made too light or the stuff won't fill the mold. Different plastics and blends of plastics with weighting agents have different specific weights. I never said all discs are shaped similarly in different plastics. Usually (always?) they aren't. Dave Dunipace wrote on PDGA board that Champion 164 Wraiths didn't mold properly. Bubbles. Hope that isn't a common problem in heavier weights for any disc.

It'd be quite a project to sand a heavier primo plastic disc into similar shape with the same mold base plastic so that they'd end up similar shape and similar weight. For ceteris paribus both would have to be sleek meaning a very high grit sanding is required in the finish for the premium plastic disc. That's so much of a hassle that I'll gladly leave that to someone else. From a practical point of view removal of flashing and tuning work just fine anyway. Inquiring minds want to know though.

If the primo disc wouldn't be polished you'd have to argue with David McCormack about molding imperfections on disc or intentional dimple technology or surface irregularities for enhanced grip and decreased drag on Quest At and Gateway discs. His analysis and patents. I have no reason to doubt his word.

Based on just intuition not knowing what mode of air flow there is on a disc I'd guess that drag on the disc is different for similar shaped discs of different materials. I'd love to see real scientific data on this though and would love to be proved wrong. Until then I go with gut feeling and observed results

 

[Bradley Walker]

If the primo disc wouldn't be polished you'd have to argue with David McCormack about molding imperfections on disc or intentional dimple technology or surface irregularities for enhanced grip and decreased drag on Quest At and Gateway discs. His analysis and patents. I have no reason to doubt his word.

What analysis? Where is the data? How was it measured? Using what tools and methods? I talked to Dave several times about methods and machinery that could be used to test discs. Nothing ever came of it that I know of.

If these dimpled discs were superior to others, they would be the most popular discs on the market and would be copied by all the other companies.

Hey, don't get me wrong I like a lot of the Gateway discs and I use their putters exclusively, but Dave is a marketer first, and he has found his niche. This is pretty common in sport equipment. In ball golf everyone would have you believe they have the winning edge in technology, when the truth is that they are really copying each other mostly and knocking each other off. Very little innovation is achieved.

 

[adamschneider]

If texture meant nothing, golf balls wouldn't have dimples, and outdoor volleyballs wouldn't have raised stitches.

 

[Aaron_D]

Does anyone know what the farthest teebird throw is dx vs star/champ? I think the dx throw was over 800'. I cannot imagine the star/champ throw being close to that.

Brad, are you seriously arguing that there are no appreciable flight differences between plastics of the same mold? Im calling shenanagins!

I am fairly certain that you cannot remove enough flashing and tune a star/champ teebird enough to duplicate the flight of a seasoned dx teebird. Otherwise, distance records would not be set with base plastic discs.

 

[Midnightbiker]

Once again, I start a thread, and it takes off with a life of its own. :shock:

 

[Dogma1]

Two discs of exactly the same shape with fly the same. Period.

So... are you arguing that when a disc "breaks in" and flies differently as it wears, that the only change is in it's shape? I've got lots of banged up, ugly, but relatively new discs that still fly like new. And some others that look fine but have seen lots of use and fly much more understable than they used to. It's not the shape that's different. I agree that flashing, etc. can change the flight of a disc, but it certainly isn't the ONLY thing that affects it. If you disagree I have several newish Rocs with lots of cosmetic damage I'd be glad to trade for your seasoned ones that don't have damage.

 

[geoloseth1]

As a disc beats in it'll get more understable because your wearing the bottom off of the disc slowly. There is one course here in Dallas, veterans park, that is nasty for this because most of the landing area is dirt and rock. Ive seen noticeable change in discs from just a handfull of rounds. If you play somewhere that is mostly grass then you don't run into the problem. On the other hand I have my first disc that I ever bought, an old mold dx beast, that still flies relativley like new because I mostly used it for thumbers. It has tons of dents and small gouges but it hasn't gotten thinner because the bottom never wore down.

But that's just the explanation that I've come to believe. I could be totally wrong. And there is always the chance that a few really good tree hits will damage the disc in a way that alters the flight characteristics.

 

[Bradley Walker]

Brad, are you seriously arguing that there are no appreciable flight differences between plastics of the same mold? Im calling shenanagins!

Same mold, different plastics, different shaped discs.

It is called shrinkage.

The more shrinkage, the smaller the bead/notch, the less stable the disc and the more glide. So a new DX disc is far more along the wear curve than a premium disc, which more fully retains its shape after molding. Cheaper plastics also wear from the bottom much faster than premium discs from contact with the ground.

Then cheaper plastics deform nose down (tuned less stable) on collision because they deform permanently with very low collision force, which will cause them to be more understable. Most new premium discs cannot be bent enough from a throw collision to permanently deform the plastic.

The air does not care what you disc is made from...

BTW, Voight threw an ESP Flash further than he threw the cheap plastic Extreme.

 

[Scoot_er]

As a disc beats in it'll get more understable because your wearing the bottom off of the disc slowly. There is one course here in Dallas, veterans park, that is nasty for this because most of the landing area is dirt and rock. Ive seen noticeable change in discs from just a handfull of rounds. If you play somewhere that is mostly grass then you don't run into the problem. On the other hand I have my first disc that I ever bought, an old mold dx beast, that still flies relativley like new because I mostly used it for thumbers. It has tons of dents and small gouges but it hasn't gotten thinner because the bottom never wore down.

But that's just the explanation that I've come to believe. I could be totally wrong. And there is always the chance that a few really good tree hits will damage the disc in a way that alters the flight characteristics.

Ok the part about the DX beast being fine because it was only used for thumbers doesn't fly.

It is common to try to break discs in this way because when the disc hits the ground on a thumber the nose gets pushed down. The more the nose is angled down the flippier the disc will be.