Disc Golf Course "stock"

[Royal Hill]

Ok, but back to your idea. I see your idea being the same idea many of us has had. One of our club board members had this idea in a conversation the two of us had not less than a month ago. (out of frustration of being jerked around by muninciple governments)

The disc golfer co-operative. Right? Is that the best term?

A DG co-op that would gather members, some pooled revenue. Maybe equal shares, or maybe some have bigger investments than others. Maybe different levels of membership. Maybe some have voting rights, others don't, whatever...

That co op would then have to find a site amenable to course development and "make arrangements."

The co op Would then have to handle all that theyve taken on, including responsibilities, risk management obligations as they've arranged,Operations, and pay their bills to stay afloat.

As long as everything can pencil out, and the co op stays afloat... Life is good!

To determine what it would take to do the co op thing... One would have to do some pricing and estimating and do some pencil and calculator work. Speculation if you will....

Running a self sustaining co op is one thing, but luring in outside money for "investors"? . Gosh that is next level even compared to that as you need not only sustainability, and not only profitability, but investable profitability compared to other investment opportunities available.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

You are on to it and its no easy feat to get where we are talking but yes you pretty much sum up the grass roots start to the idea/OP.

 

[SteezeOG]

With the right partners and business plan in place I would consider it. Otherwise I'd pass pretty quickly. So my answer is maybe, which is not an option in your poll.

 

[Hampstead]

Depends who else is involved. There's a lot of folks out there who are tough to share a free forum with let alone become business partners with.

 

[pmatt1969]

I'll pass.

 

[jrawk]

I'd rather be the sole land/course owner than have to deal with a board of executives.

 

[NOSteveLA]

Who designs said course?

 

[Aim For The Chains]

I'd rather be the sole land/course owner than have to deal with a board of executives.

Same here but its not really a profitable or long term viable option for my $ really.

RE: who designs the course-- would be left up to those involved. I imagine it would be a good idea to get some type of input from those who have experience or the group be involved directly with a designer itself.

 

[jrawk]

Same here but its not really a profitable or long term viable option for my $ really.

RE: who designs the course-- would be left up to those involved. I imagine it would be a good idea to get some type of input from those who have experience or the group be involved directly with a designer itself.

opening a private disc golf course in general is not a good investment idea. period.


don't do it for the money. do it for your enjoyment.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

which is a sad part of DG.

 

[jrawk]

which is a sad part of DG.

concur

 

[Improbably]

.... priority on what is done ...

I do a lot of work on a public course and put a decent amount of my own money into it. I am investing time and money but it's public land my only return is deciding what gets done and the pride of contributing to the sport.

 

[Puckstopper]

If I could find a small group (100 or so) of like-minded individuals I would think about investing up to $1000 or so. The issue is that I don't see $100,000 buying enough land, baskets, concrete, etc to build a truly epic course, which would be the only reason to drop that much coin in the first place. Combine that with needing to figure out maintenance costs and it sounds like too much of a headache for me to want to put together. Now, if someone came to me with what I've proposed above and had a good plan in place I'd be happy to pull a few bucks out of my bank account.


What I'd want out of "Country Club" disc golf:

1. Small, well screened membership base to avoid having the course overrun.
2. A truly amazing piece of land. Water, changes in elevation, both deciduous and coniferous trees and adequate space would be the bare minimum I would expect. Room to grow beyond 18 holes would be a bonus.
3. Well maintained grounds. No thorn bushes or poison ivy in the "first cut" of rough
4. Multiple tee and pin positions, and frequent changes of pin positions.
5. Strictly enforced dress code, maximum group size, and noise restrictions.
6. No children under 16, even with a member, except on designated days (1 or 2 such days per month MAX).

Issues I foresee with my dream:

1. Cash flow. I don't see any way to have a self sustaining nest egg with a $100,000 initial investment. I'd have no problem with $100 annual dues, but I know many would on top of their initial investment.
2. Maintaining an amazing piece of land and keeping trespassers off would be a challenge.
3. Entitlement: People would feel like they paid for the land and should be able to bring enormous groups. Even if the rules are laid out clearly up front there will always be a select handful of people who think that they're special, or that the rules shouldn't apply this time because (insert bullsh!t reason here).

Potential solutions:

1. Sell discs, both with the course logo and just basic stock. The "pro shop" wouldn't have to be elaborate or have every mold under the sun. It would have to have a variety of basic molds, and do enough business to at least break even and hopefully turn a profit.
2. Require members to work X hours a month, either in the pro shop, moving pins, or doing grounds-keeping. Members with power equipment (riding mowers, Gators, etc, not weed whips or chainsaws) would get double credit for their time if they brought their own equipment
3. Allow members to donate additional time in lieu of dues, at a fixed rate. Members who go above and beyond should not have to pay to play.
4. Maintain a fixed membership size so that members can sell their stake in the course for the cost of their initial up front payout (may be more/less depending on the market).
5. Charge guests for rounds. Guests can only play with a member of course, but they should be paying for the privilege also. Members might get 10 passes a year or something that they can sell to defray their dues, but after that guests need to pay to play
6. Tiered membership/initial investment. $1500 up front instead of $1000 might buy you a lifetime +1 on any round. Similarly, you could do $200 per year instead of $100 for the privilege. You'd still get your passes for when you wanted to bring larger groups.

The biggest issue I see is finding enough people who would want to play by restrictive enough rules to make people like me feel like they were getting something out of paying. Charitably speaking, disc golfers tend to be "free spirits" and wouldn't like conforming to rules laid down by "the man".

 

[Puckstopper]

I do a lot of work on a public course and put a decent amount of my own money into it. I am investing time and money but it's public land my only return is deciding what gets done and the pride of contributing to the sport.

You're the exception, not the rule. Very much the exception I might add, and thank you for the work you do!

 

[DavidSauls]

There are a lot of catch-22s involved. To have enough investors you need a good-sized population center, but such a place tends to have expensive land. Most also have good courses, so you'd need something really special to draw people off their existing courses, and spend money to do so. Adding amenties (clubhouse, store, etc.) adds to the cost, as does hiring someone to do maintenance.

At each point, as you add to the attraction you add cost, and as you add cost you reduce the number of willing investors.

It's a great dream, and perhaps one day somebody, somewhere, will make it work. But it's really tough for me to see how.

 

[Royal Hill]

It's my feeling on it as well - I don't see the co-op model coming to fruition, for very long at least.

Better chance is with a lease operation model, single operator or group, with a friendly landowner who doesn't see a better alternative use for the land that is otherwise resting passive. Happenstance could lead to a fortuitous great piece of land (for DG that is, near population, that hasn't otherwise been seen as such a jewel for other compensated uses). Could happen, finding an undiscovered jewel.

Maybe in a situation where you (the group) can make it "so easy and trouble free" for the landowner to collect a small passive cash flow, with reasonable assurances of risk management protection. Even that's tough as we've talked about.

One of the concepts I've put in on each of my responses on this thread is the idea that a non-public, for profit or for co-op course would likely face real decisions about limiting hours of operation. They would be crazy not to. Likely more stringent than currently most pub park courses do. Weekends, or stated hours, or stated seasons, or all the above likely have to be considered. That's a tough pill for most golfers to handle compared to the norm for most. That could make an interesting poll or thread in itself.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

At this point in the game there just isn't enough $ to really even make it a viable option unless we created the market almost and that's next to impossible b/c its never been done.

It actually gives me a headache trying to sort out of the different ways which this could be approached, the most viable and then actually putting the things in place in order to fulfill the idea just really hurts the brain.

Bottom line boils down to what would people pay and what would they expect. The 100k figure actually is quite a bit of $ assuming the land sucks you want to put the course on That's the hardest part about land valuation and perceived owners ROI (often much higher than is reality) but in one area an acre is worth a few thousand vs 10's of thousands or even 100's.

Its fun to dream tho'

 

[DavidSauls]

It's my feeling on it as well - I don't see the co-op model coming to fruition, for very long at least.

Better chance is with a lease operation model, single operator or group, with a friendly landowner who doesn't see a better alternative use for the land that is otherwise resting passive. Happenstance could lead to a fortuitous great piece of land (for DG that is, near population, that hasn't otherwise been seen as such a jewel for other compensated uses). Could happen, finding an undiscovered jewel.

Maybe in a situation where you (the group) can make it "so easy and trouble free" for the landowner to collect a small passive cash flow, with reasonable assurances of risk management protection. Even that's tough as we've talked about.

One of the concepts I've put in on each of my responses on this thread is the idea that a non-public, for profit or for co-op course would likely face real decisions about limiting hours of operation. They would be crazy not to. Likely more stringent than currently most pub park courses do. Weekends, or stated hours, or stated seasons, or all the above likely have to be considered. That's a tough pill for most golfers to handle compared to the norm for most. That could make an interesting poll or thread in itself.

It's a good idea. Though the limited hours would be a really tough pill for disc golfer's who've spent thousands of dollars to be able to play it.

It's just a step away from a private, pay-to-play course that has become a members-only course, with annual membership.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

soooooo... Selah Ranch is for sale at just over $6MIL -- who is in?! :hfive:

 

[ru4por]

Nope, I would pay a membership fee, but not ownership. Ownership comes with the liability and potential for financial loss as well as gain. And ownership would inevitably carry some drama and politics with it.