Disc Golf on Ball Golf Course

[Sadjo]

I think Cam Todd was involved recently in a redesign of a course in SC. The entire 18 disc holes are on 9 of the ball golf holes. I hope to see it soon. It was fun before, but a bit much work to play nearly the entire length of a full ball golf course.

That's the course in Union. My wife's hometown. I used to play golf there years ago and got Reese hooked up with the course. I remember wanting to involved and when finally getting to play the course being way too long.

Reese doesn't think you can par a course shorter than the ball golf course and exist together. I will try and be in Union the Sunday of the tourney to see what theyve done.

 

[Steve West]

...Reese doesn't think you can par a course shorter than the ball golf course and exist together. I will try and be in Union the Sunday of the tourney to see what theyve done.

Reese's method is probably the most-proven "cookbook" approach to doing it. There are other ways that can work, but those ways can also fail.

There is no single "best" answer to how to put a disc golf course on a golf course. (Unless there is enough room and money to put it on land that is not part of the course - if so, do that.)

Each course requires its own approach, with the personality of the golfers being the number one major concern.

For MOST golf courses (maybe 75%) the best approach will be to not add disc golf at all. That only leaves 4,000 or so for us to play on.

 

[harr0140]

One way to create a great course on a golf course would be to not adhere to following the current routing of the golf holes . . . but that also takes away from the possibility of having both sports play at the same time . . . so the design needs to account for the desires of the golf course owner. Do they plan to have both sports at the same time, or can you basically look at the course as a blank canvas for you to use the best features in any order you want . . . and not be constrained to following the golf fairways per se. Some really unique holes can be had when crossing fairways, but often times that isn't possible without causing issues.

Steve, you did a great job at Fort Snelling to make sure golf and disc golf can be played simultaneously. The only issue I noticed is that typically I think that disc golfers on that course could play 1-2 holes in the time it would take golfers to play a par 3, 2-3 holes in the time it would take golfers to play a par 4, and 3-4 holes in the time it would take golfers to play a par 5 (assuming that we are talking about a 4-some of golfers and a 4-some of disc golfers. There needs to be flexibility in terms of abilities however, because not everyone plays the same in either sport. I didn't mind that we played the 18 in under 2 hours because we never ran into the backside of any golfers . . . but if the course was filled with golfers and we squeezed in between, it might get a little frustrating. However, I also understand golf so I know how long I should expect it to take.

I look forward to seeing a couple golf course DGC's on my road-trip to start seeing more courses like this. I have only seen 3 or 4 so far but have already formulated a good idea of how I would tackle this idea. Always looking to learn from other people however.

 

[Stan McDaniel]

That's the course in Union. My wife's hometown. I used to play golf there years ago and got Reese hooked up with the course. I remember wanting to involved and when finally getting to play the course being way too long.

Reese doesn't think you can par a course shorter than the ball golf course and exist together. I will try and be in Union the Sunday of the tourney to see what theyve done.

I had hopes for disc golf on one ball golf course here in Charlotte but it didn't come to fruition. I was concerned with how I could make disc flow with ball if I tried to put 2 disc holes on one ball hole. It would have been fun to try. I wish I could play Cam's event but I will be at the beach playing ball golf and fishing that weekend.

 

[Sadjo]

I had hopes for disc golf on one ball golf course here in Charlotte but it didn't come to fruition. I was concerned with how I could make disc flow with ball if I tried to put 2 disc holes on one ball hole. It would have been fun to try. I wish I could play Cam's event but I will be at the beach playing ball golf and fishing that weekend.

My concern with putting 2 DG holes per BG hole is frustrating the ballers playing behing the discers. Imagine waiting to tee and seeing the DG Players putt out and then walk or ride 50 feet and tee again. That's one of the worries.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Maybe requiring the disc golfers to play in sixsomes would get the timing to play a hole closer?

 

[JC17393]

My concern with putting 2 DG holes per BG hole is frustrating the ballers playing behing the discers. Imagine waiting to tee and seeing the DG Players putt out and then walk or ride 50 feet and tee again. That's one of the worries.

Discers are going to be throwing more shots from the fairways if they're playing the same holes/lengths as the ball golfers. Even duffer ball golfers can hit a 200 yard drive on a lot of holes (maybe not perfectly down the middle, but the D isn't outside their capabilities). Very few disc golfers are covering that distance in one throw. So I think whether it's one disc hole or two, if it's sharing space with a ball hole, the trailing group is going to be waiting on the group in front of them.

Regardless of the design, co-operating and understanding on both sides of the equation (ball and disc) is going to be necessary for the courses to co-exist. I think the solution to your proposed problem of disc golfers holing out and starting a new hole within one ball golf hole is to push both the target and the tee off the fairway. By doing so, the disc golfers can putt out and go to the next tee and then wait for the ball golfers to tee off from a safe, out of the way location in which they can watch for incoming balls if necessary.

Once the ball golfers are off their tee, the disc golfers can then tee off on their next hole and start moving again while the ball golfers are walking/driving down to their balls. The ball golfers are going to have to wait again in the fairway most likely, but that'd be true whether it was one disc hole or two. Heck, they'd be waiting on another ball golf group in the same manner.

Perhaps the management is going to have to come up with some formal rules of etiquette for sharing the course, particularly in the shared space. And then make a concerted effort to educate both ball and disc golfers on it...on the scorecards, with signs on the tees, etc. Otherwise the whole thing is going to fall apart before it gets off the ground.

 

[harr0140]

Discers are going to be throwing more shots from the fairways if they're playing the same holes/lengths as the ball golfers. Even duffer ball golfers can hit a 200 yard drive on a lot of holes (maybe not perfectly down the middle, but the D isn't outside their capabilities). Very few disc golfers are covering that distance in one throw. So I think whether it's one disc hole or two, if it's sharing space with a ball hole, the trailing group is going to be waiting on the group in front of them.

Regardless of the design, co-operating and understanding on both sides of the equation (ball and disc) is going to be necessary for the courses to co-exist. I think the solution to your proposed problem of disc golfers holing out and starting a new hole within one ball golf hole is to push both the target and the tee off the fairway. By doing so, the disc golfers can putt out and go to the next tee and then wait for the ball golfers to tee off from a safe, out of the way location in which they can watch for incoming balls if necessary.

Once the ball golfers are off their tee, the disc golfers can then tee off on their next hole and start moving again while the ball golfers are walking/driving down to their balls. The ball golfers are going to have to wait again in the fairway most likely, but that'd be true whether it was one disc hole or two. Heck, they'd be waiting on another ball golf group in the same manner.

Perhaps the management is going to have to come up with some formal rules of etiquette for sharing the course, particularly in the shared space. And then make a concerted effort to educate both ball and disc golfers on it...on the scorecards, with signs on the tees, etc. Otherwise the whole thing is going to fall apart before it gets off the ground.

One way to avoid this would be to use the first 2/3rds of a par 4 for the first hole of DG and then have a shorter hole that plays across the fairway but gets the disc golfers out of the typical range for a golfer.

Another way would be to have signs posted, that there are 2 disc golf holes per hole and for golfers to wait until the disc golfers have finished the first hole before teeing off . . . golfers typically know how far they can hit the ball, but sometimes it is hard to know when it isnt golfers in front of you. Having disc golfers in the fairway might throw people off and not really know where they intend to land their ball.

The important thing to rememebr if we can play at least 18 holes of DG int he time golfers play 9 holes of golf . . . probably more like 27 holes to 9. SO maybe Par 3 golf holes could have 1-2 holes and then get out of the way. Par 4's could have 2-3 holes per golf hole and par 5's could have 3-4 DG holes per golf hole. That would make the timing more similar but might also cause confusion as to when the disc golfers would be out of the way.

I think the use of DG simultanteously as golf in general is not something that will be well received. It can work but the golfers better be really understanding or the amount of golf play had better be really low.

Using golf courses as seasonal courses like having a fall league 1 night a week or a couple of fall tourneys (when golf is less popular) or just use them as winter courses. That is what I am marketing to golf course owners.

 

[Steve West]

...I think the solution to your proposed problem of disc golfers holing out and starting a new hole within one ball golf hole is to push both the target and the tee off the fairway. By doing so, the disc golfers can putt out and go to the next tee and then wait for the ball golfers to tee off from a safe, out of the way location in which they can watch for incoming balls if necessary.

Have you seen ball golfers play? There is no safe, out of the way location. The only safe way to play in front of golfers is if they don't hit, or you are on the next hole. To keep them from hitting, you need to be visible.

The speed at which disc golfers putt is unbelievable to a golfer. To golfers, disc golfers clear the hole in the blink of an eye. The golfers learn that the disc golfers will all putt, go to the next tee, throw and walk out of range in the time it can take a regular golfer to miss his first of 3 putts.

The speed at which disc golfers play two holes has a lot of overlap with the speed at which golfers play one. So, golfers getting stuck behind another group of golfers is just about as likely as golfers getting stuck behind disc golfers, or disc golfers getting stuck behind golfers, or disc golfer getting stuck behind disc golfers.

The same etiquette exists for these situations for both golfers and disc golfers, so they know what to do.

Again, though, it varies by the type of golfer.

At Fort Snelling, an executive 9-hiole with some real golf challenges, there are more serious (and skilled) golfers. There, the best move is to let the golfers tee off first. They hit the ball beyond the disc golf target, so the disc golfers can then play unfettered. Usually, the two groups won't see each other after that, except maybe the disc golfers would politely wait for the golfers to putt on the first hole before throwing at the second disc golf hole - so the golfers aren't distracted by something flying in their peripheral vision.

At Wirth Par 3, the golf course is the easiest golf course around, so all the players are unskilled. Think 7-year olds out with their grandmothers. There, the golfers let the disc golfers go first because they would be embarrassed to have someone watch them swing, and because the disc golfers will get out of the way quickly.

All that being said, don't add disc golf unless the course is so empty that it is desperate, or you can separate the course entirely (either in space or time) from the golfers.

 

[Sadjo]

Great responses so far. Incase anyone isn't reading from the beginning...I've been asked to put a plan together for an 18 hole design on a 9 hole golf course. Its a county owned course that doesnt do a lot of business. It actually loses money each year.

To be fair I want to look at all the options before bringing plan forward. While nothing is certain, I feel positive this will go through.

 

[mashnut]

Here's a map of one layout I played with 18 disc golf holes on 9 golf holes. You basically follow the same routing, though the disc golf holes often tee off in front of the ball golf tees, and our holes are shorter overall. There is one tee and one pin on each side of the fairway, offering 4 different 9 hole layouts and 36 different shots overall. I thought it worked fairly well, the flow was pretty good with longer walks for disc golfers but slightly quicker play.

The yellow dots are disc golf tees, the red dots are baskets:

 

[Danger]

I can tell you that on a smaller par 3 course like Verdugo Hills, the ball golfers and disc golfers play at just about the same speed. What is the BG par of the course you have to work with?

DeBell is a tiny 9 hole that is played mostly by families and recreational golfers. Again, they maintain about the same pace if they are only playing one ball, which is rare. To me the style of DG course you create should be dictated by the crowd already using the course.

 

[Sadjo]

I can tell you that on a smaller par 3 course like Verdugo Hills, the ball golfers and disc golfers play at just about the same speed. What is the BG par of the course you have to work with?

DeBell is a tiny 9 hole that is played mostly by families and recreational golfers. Again, they maintain about the same pace if they are only playing one ball, which is rare. To me the style of DG course you create should be dictated by the crowd already using the course.

One set of tees is 36 and the other is 35. A par 71 ball Gill. That's too long for a Disc Golf par. Learned that lesson when we layer out River Chase. We followed par there and ended up with way too long of a course.

We're getting close to finding out if we will be able to move ahead with this project.

 

[Sadjo]

I talked with county administrator today. I have a presentation before the board of commissioners Feb 26th.

 

[cgprush]

I've played an 18 hole disc golf course at a bolf country club in Denmark, SC, Crestwood: http://www.dgcoursereview.com/reviews.php?id=2654&mode=rev

The course was mainly long with not too many other challenges present. It used a lot of area away from the ball course and also some of the ball course. As it was not busy at all, this was not a problem. It might be worth a look to see how they did it. Call first, though, it's been a couple of years since I played it and the latest review is about that old, too. Not sure if it's still in place.

How did the presentation go?

 

[harr0140]

I played Crestwood this winter as it was one of the golf/discgolf courses along my route to the East Coast and then north. I was pretty happy with the way they designed things there. It's not a great golf course but it is a decent disc golf course. I feel like they used the open fairways well to add in that all out power type throw but they knew when to tuck a basket against a tree line, under some mature trees, nearby to some water etc.

I am excited about the course I laid out in theory for a local golf course recently and am excited to host a tourney there this season sometime. I cannot do it when they have their bulk of golf being played but am hopeful an October or November weekend would work for them. I hope to bring in 50-100 players on a day in November . . . that is not something a slow golf course should look away from!

 

[Disc Fiend]

I am going to play Forest Hills in a couple weeks, I am excited to play disc golf on a ball golf course for the first time!

 

[Sadjo]

My proposal got pushed back. I'm going before the commission next week.

 

[DSmith]

I'm currently putting together a presentation to put in a dg course on a 9 hole course. What is the feed back from ball golfers that have to share their course with dgers?

 

[mashnut]

I'm currently putting together a presentation to put in a dg course on a 9 hole course. What is the feed back from ball golfers that have to share their course with dgers?

It really depends on the crowd that frequents the golf course. If it's the kind of course where you don't need a tee time, shorts and teeshirts are acceptable attire and they sell bud light in the clubhouse it seems like the two crowds mix really well without a lot of conflict from what I've seen. You'll likely see more push back at a more upscale course.