Disc Polymer Blend Recipes?

[mmunter]

So here is the problem:

I am a manufacturing engineering student working on my senior project with a fairly large team (10) of engineering students. We are seriously considering fabricating an injection molding machine for the purpose of molding discs. The only problem is that we don't want to go to all of the work of designing and fabricating everything only to have the final product (discs) be pieces of crap because we cannot find the right proportions of plastic types. We don't really care what type of plastic we make (i.e. Champion, DX, SuperSoft, etc) so long as it is a reasonably functioning disc golf plastic.

The only info I can find on the subject is this:
http://www.gdstour.com/gateway_putter_flexibility.php

Do any insiders reading this have specific information?

 

[ManU]

are you asking what a mix recipe for plastic is?
if you email Dave at Gateway...actually maybe give him a call he may help you out as he is a good guy.
Gateway hand blends their plastic and as such it tends to be different run to run
I think the "big" makers have pretty set recipes.

Not sure if they will give those up...but maybe try contacting them.

You may also simply want to try getting hold of some plastic manufacturers and taking some discs to their shop to have them help you out. This might actually end up being your best bet. I think the factors of grip, durability, and a level of firmness are key.

Get hold of an old Innova Champion Edition (not current Champion) plastic disc and if you can work out with a plastic company how to recreate it you will be on to a winner

 

[mmunter]

Yeah, I am pretty much trying to settle on any ratio of plastics that makes a reasonable disc. For example, 30% material A, 20% material B, and 50% material C.

I have already thought about contacting Dave. I have spoken with him on the phone before, and he seemed like a really nice guy. Like you said, though, I am not sure he would disclose information so vital to his company. Being a student might give me an advantage, and I go to school in the St Louis area so I could stop in if he was willing....

Your idea of plastic manufacturers is a great idea. I will check the yellow pages and make some calls tomorrow.

Anybody else?

 

[Three Putt]

All I know about plastic mixes is written on top of a # 1 Driver. Lightning reformulated while I was retailing their discs and Steve Howle sent me some examples. On the top he wrote "New Mix (70% Polypropylene.)" What the other 30% is made up of I would have no idea.

 

[mmunter]

What was the prototype plastic comparable to (in terms of Innova or DiscCraft)?

 

[Three Putt]

What was the prototype plastic comparable to (in terms of Innova or DiscCraft)?

It was a base plastic like Pro D or DX, but it was a really soft and grippy plastic. Not floppy soft, just softer than what a DX disc feels like today. DX at the time was also softer, so they felt a lot closer at that time. The Lightning plastic was not great for durability however.

Where are you going to college at?

 

[ManU]

I now remember seeing something once that talked about Champ and Z being blends of nylon for one and I can't now for the life of me remember what the other was

 

[bcr123psu]

If you make an ish load of the discs, you should have some of the more disc-saavy folks here on DGCR take them for a test drive. I'd be happy to huck a few and give you the noodle-arm noob with bad form perspective.

 

[Scoot_er]

Hytrel, Polypropylene, and urethayne are the main 3 I remember but I'm sure Dave wouldn't mind telling you a decent simple blend.

I would go with the Urethayne/hytrel mix though of 70-30 if I were going into it blind.

 

[Gabrience]

hey dude, im an aerospace engineering student. cant help much with the chemical composition, but could point you in the right direction with disc design if youre wanting to try something new.

 

[Marmoset]

Champ/Z are urethanes, not nylon. Good luck getting the manufacturers to tell you their recipes. I imagine they are closely guarded secrets.
While you're at it, ask Pepsi for their recipe.

I think your safest bet is to contact the material supplier where you will get your pellets. Tell them your design needs and limitations and they will help you choose a polymer.

 

[Dave242]

use regrind......as in get a bunch of discs of the plastic you want and use that.

 

[WillACarpenter]

use regrind......as in get a bunch of discs of the plastic you want and use that.

AKA Make Echo Star Plastic!

Maybe get some defective discs and use those as a base material and keep adding stuff in until you get something you like?

\/\/

 

[gkeberhart]

im not sure that this information is exactly what you are looking for, but Berry Plastics (berryplastics.com) is a company that produces pellets and raw polymers for many injection mold industries. I don't believe that they supply to the Disc Golf industry so they may be able to give you some information that won't disrupt any competetive advantages in plastics that one manufacturer may have over the other.

 

[toothyfish]

use regrind......as in get a bunch of discs of the plastic you want and use that.

THis will work as long as the materials are typical thermoplastics: polypropylene, polyethelene, etc.

Some of the higher grade plastics (Champion/Z) use thermosets: polyurethane, once it cures, it can't be remelted.

But DX plastic should work, I think it polyethylene based.

Edit: wait a tick, the Echo Star series is recycled, Star may work after all.

If you search around enough, you can get some basic info.

 

[ukulelethrower]

I have an idea, make discs with polyvinyl chloride, the polymer (plastic) of drain pipe, and blend other thermoset polymers for desired flexibility, and most important, add some plasticizers with nitro functional groups to the blend. You'd get a super tough disc with elasticity dependent on blend of thermosetting polymer and plasticizer, that would explode upon contact.

The answer to "Why are trees" might have new dimension.

 

[Casey 1988]

I would think to contact a plastics company and send in both a Champion and Z plastic disc. Easy to find a lower cost F2 or Mistake stamp of a mold nobody likes say a Grove in Champion or from Discraft a Z Nuke OS as that mold in that plastic and speed is hardly used and send in the discs to get a plastic in pellets close to the disc that most of the public would want. I say new and mistake so you don't have a disc where the plastic is all gummy due to use or age of sitting and mistake to save money. The mold that few like or use is so that the person does not feel bad for getting a disc the company that is the least popular for average person and a F2 or mistamp is the way to go, as then even less people buy the mold.

 

[Casey 1988]

AKA Make Echo Star Plastic!

Maybe get some defective discs and use those as a base material and keep adding stuff in until you get something you like?

\/\/

If you can't find actual Echo Star, then try to find some mold in driver Pro that that is as stiff as the plastic has come, then send that in. From what I have felt this Stiff Pro is fairly close to Echo Star.

 

[Muddyboots]

At least this edition of word vomit is in a 10 year old thread.

 

[BogeyNoMore]

Necrobumps: far cooler when they're intentional. :|