Discuss This Hole: Oak Island #15

[Martin Dewgarita]

Following a round at Oak Island, Hole 15 is one of the most discussed hole. A 3 will have folks bragging, and many others will be mourning a circle or two on the card and some lost plastic. My first impression was "Wow, what an awesome, unique hole. After a while, I began to wonder "Is this really a great hole? or a pain in my ass?

I've concluded that I love this hole. The fact that I'm putting this much thought into it (I've been thinking about it since I first played it) proves it to be one of the more memorable challenging holes I've played. I tend to ask most others their opinion of it. Advanced - Open level players tend to agree that it's a great hole, there's usually a hesitation or a "But..." clause that accompanies their explanation. Lower level players often hate it, and sometimes vice versa. So, I'm curious, what do you think?

Disclaimer, all numbers and data are made up from my observations, real data would be interesting to know on this hole.

Green Areas F and G are the landing zones, the areas where you have the best chance of having a clean shot across the water. Area F is maybe 30' wide, G is 15' wide and is where the drop zone is located. Landing in the green areas doesn't guarantee a clean shot, footing may be rough, that one pesky limb might be right in your line. I've personally tossed a shot 5' just to set up a better line.

Drop zone is used for any OB shot that doesn't clear the water, a second drop zone is located across the water if the first one fails you.

Black line along the left is OB (13 fairway), dashed section is an imaginary extension.

Dark green is heavy shule/trees that will most likely require a pitch out.

The Yellow area surrounding is "Hero shot possible" there might be a line, but you're going to have to be a bit creative. The entire possible landing zone is maybe 60' x 30'.

The Drive, line A. RHBH Hyzer or equivalent, 325' or so to F, 380' to G. A fairly tight line, maybe 20' between the two trees just before F. I give myself about 30% chance that I will have a look across the lake, I'd guess the open players are more around 50%. 30% of the time I'll end up in or near the yellow and have no choice but a 20' pitch to either F or G. The other 40% I hit an early tree and have a much more layup to the landing zone.

The approach.

From F via B. The RHBH Hyzer crash (or equivalent). ~350' Kept low there's windows in the trees, widest of which is maybe 10'. A tree hit will likely land you in the water. I give myself 50/50 on that shot. A spike crash hyzer, get it high enough above the trees, equivalent to a 425' pump, hit the trees above the basket at about 40' high and drop down, 70% rate if I can hit the line.

Via C. The safe hyzer line, plays about 300', wide open hyzer shot that will give you a 30' putt or so if perfectly placed, but usually leaves me with a 45-75' approach.

Via D. LHBH flex line or equivalent. On first glance this appears to be a righty hole (hyzer/hyzer). But the safest run at the basket is a flex line through the main opening that fades towards the basket. Plays 350' or so and is the safest bet at a run towards the basket.

From G via E. The drop zone and farthest landing area provide a straight look at the basket probably 300'.

Lesser skilled players have somewhat of an option to skip the water, but it requires them to throw directly into the shule (just left of the letter E). At the very least, to play the hole clean, a 150' water carry is required.

Wish I had more pictures, but here's what I've got:

Looking from the pin towards the landing zone, the left opening is F, the right G.

The thrower here is on the left edge of F.

A common scene during/after the round

I have not 3'd this hole, rarely do I even have a look, but I know when that day comes, all of the pain and struggle will be worth it. Some of the open level players claim to 3 it 50% of the time, others bitch about the 4 - 5 - 6p it gave them. Advanced players brag like crazy if they 3 it, but mostly bitch about 5's or worse.

Now, one last random thought to digest. Remember I said I give myself 30% chance of having a look across the lake, 70% I layup. Of that 70% rarely is it a perfect layup, usually there's a stump or random limb in the way throwing my line off a bit. Playing the odds, my smartest move seems to be to turn directly to the right and toss it 30' into the water, thus giving me a clean look at 3 from the drop zone, I know exactly what my footing and line is going to look like.

Is there anything that would prevent this move? Should it be prevented with a mando? Should it just be allowed? If it's allowed could the option then be given to just throw 3 from the drop zone and not have to waste a disc into the lake?

Hope this all makes sense...

Discuss.

 

[aardvarkious]

For your drop zone option: am I misunderstanding you, or are you forgetting to add in your penalty for going in the water?

You drive. Throw one. You throw into the water. Throw two. You take your penalty and move to the DZ- throw three. Now you are taking your fourth throw from the DZ. If you can get a clean approach and a good putt, you are looking at a 6.

 

[rocthecourse]

^I believe he means to throw a tee shot from A straight to the right to the closest water to the tee. This would allow him to go to the drop zone with 1 shot and 1 penalty, so if he hits his shot from the drop zone he would score a circle 3.

 

[JReynolds]

I hope there is no rule against this... I watched the final group of Open players, at a fairly large b tier around the area, and there was a hole with a huge water carry... If you carried the water, chances are you would be in some schule, and have to pitch out, then have a long jump putt at 3... I watched 2 of these Open players throw directly to their right (ob in the road), then smile and walk to the drop. The drop zone was about 200ft from the basket, and wide open. Of the 4 in the group of open players, 2 threw intentional ob, and took a circle 4, one carried the water, and threw out of the schule and hit a huge jump putt for 3... The other player tried the water carry, and didn't make it, so he also took a circle 4, but lost a driver in the process

 

[gripinNrippin]

This isn't "that hard of a hole" the main problem for people is the first shot off the tee. At first glance you want to throw a stable disc such as a firebird, gator, viper, force, etc etc.... When you do something like that off the tee and you don't take the "hyzer" route (which is hard to find unless you know where its at) like you said you have about 30% chance of landing in the fairway. In reality the tee shot is much more of a straight shot with a little fade on the end to get a nice look over the water for chance at a 3 so more like a roc shot. So long story short, I suppose you could just toss your tee shot 30ft to the right in the water and shoot from the DZ, and take your circle 4 assuming you clear the water (the chances of getting a circle three this way are VERY slim to none). Otherwise you could toss something straight off the tee and get a descent look over the water for 3, and still save a 4 easily if you need to lay up before throwing across the water..
Side note - By no means is it "Easy" to just throw in the water off the Tee, you still have to clear all the brush, branches, and trees to land OB, and if you screw that up your in big trouble.
Just my two cents

 

[Steve West]

Ross asked me to find the short tees (because, by his own admission, he is incapable of imagining how short most people throw). On this hole, I suggested the short tee be on the drop zone, and the rule be: from the short tee, you can elect to proceed to the second drop zone (upper left in the light green) with penalty, as if you had thrown your disc in the water.

This rule is so players who have virtually no chance of getting across the water can play the hole without getting a disc wet. Also, I believe no hole should present the possibility of an infinite score.

We didn't allow a skip from the long tees to the first drop zone, because it would always be possible to get there (or a good landing zone) by land. Even if it takes series of 5-foot throws.

However, now I see that this still presents the possibility of an infinite score FROM the landing zones. Some people who play the long tees will not be able to clear the lake from the landing zones.

Perhaps the rule should be that if any player's lie is on the first drop zone, that player can elect to proceed to the second (with penalty). Anyone who finds themself around the landing zones and unable to get across the lake (or chooses not to risk a disc) could aim for the tee pad instead of the near edge of the water. It might look silly trying to land your disc on a tee pad, but at least the player would be using a disc golf skill to get to an advantageous place.

 

[notapro]

Seems like the best option, for almost any skill level, is to end up at the drop zone 'G' in two shots. Make your approach from there, and have a straightforward putt.

My reasoning, based on your analysis:

1. The shot from F to the basket is too low percentage for most RHBH players, a look from G is much safer and easier.
2. The odds of getting a clean look at G, or even F, are too low to try in one shot. You might argue that you can go for it off the tee, and if you don't make either window, lay up from there. But it seems risky with small landing zones and some gaps to hit.
3. Much lower chance of a stray branch or whatever knocking you into the water. No water from tee to G, and a very small chance from G to pin.

So, it's definitely playing for the four, but it almost guarantees it (assuming the shot from G to pin is automatic). I'm sure in real life the plan is to try and hit F or G off the tee, and pitch if necessary to either window... But that seems a lot riskier and may make for a much tougher 3rd shot.

 

[msfried53]

I was out again messing around on this hole today. What I found worked well was a spike hyzer off the tee. You need to get over the canopy for the hyzer to the landing zone. Otherwise a straight shot off tee is next best option for me. If I try to go through the corridor on a hyzer, it always fades on me before getting around the corner so even if I have an open look, no room for run up so end up laying up.
As for second shot, if I am in the F landing zone, I see if I actually have a good window and if not usually layup to landing zone G. As already stated, it is not uncommon for me to layup several times just to have that ideal window and run up. And when going across the water, I like the FH flex if I feel confident with it that day and usually results in a decent putt opportunity, otherwise I use a big hyzer shot. With this strategy, I've been fortunate enough not to splash yet.
But also like a lot of other people, I am lucky to even get up to the landing zone in one shot so all of this is theoretical and probably accomplished about half of the time.

 

[Dan Ensor]

If I had my druthers, I'd fill in the gap that allows for path "B" and take out the trees that create 2 separate landing zones (F&G) to make 1 easier landing zone. There's a quite difficult shot to make your 3 still, but 1 disc in F is fine and another disc 10' to the left is screwed by a 2-part lz. 1/38th difference in throws shouldn't equal 1/1 stroke.

 

[Steve West]

If I had my druthers, I'd fill in the gap that allows for path "B" and take out the trees that create 2 separate landing zones (F&G) to make 1 easier landing zone. There's a quite difficult shot to make your 3 still, but 1 disc in F is fine and another disc 10' to the left is screwed by a 2-part lz. 1/38th difference in throws shouldn't equal 1/1 stroke.

So, how is a disc 5' in the water vs. another disc 5' out of the water any different?