Driving like a newbie or worse!

[ChrisinFL]

Excellent, more ways to experiment with my throws️

Have you videoed yourself throwing and watched it yet? I can't recommend that enough as a way to improve. Or, get bold and post it in the form section on this site and get some feedback. Guys that post there really know their stuff. Me - I am a fellow beginner, making many mistakes, and just started the journey a little before you did. Plus, I study what I should be doing, a lot. I play with my son every Friday, and I video and evaluate myself as often as I can remember to ask him to video a few throws for me, and I get more progress from that than anything else. It is consistently surprising to me how much different (aka worse) my form is compared to what I think I am doing, and the video doesn't lie! Rounding, starting my throw before I plant, not nearly enough reach back, bad feet alignment - all things I found from repeated video of myself with nothing more than my cell phone and having my son video just a few throws on a regular basis. Video, then compare your throw to guys on UTube that can really throw, then work on closing the gap. I click through my throws, frame by frame, to look for bad form, and, yeah, plenty bad to find! But be patient - we won't be them in a month, or probably even a year. But, improving is a lot of the fun - enjoy the journey!

 

[timothy42b]

I do line up with my right should facing the target which is facing straight ahead which would be 90 degrees to the left of the target.

As others have posted, I'm probably throwing nose up since my disc is climbing and then turning left on its side, hitting the ground and rolling for a country mile. I've only witnessed one throw by an experienced player and the disc flew at a uniform height, about 8 to 10 feet above the ground and went as straight as could be.

Great, you have half the problem solved.

Everyone I've seen throw those sky shots has been leaning back a bit and throwing with the throwing shoulder higher. And, I do it too from time to time, and then I get a turn and burn anny into the ground. So check out those shoulders. Ideally the throwing shoulder is lower at release - like a ball golfers is.

But let me unconfuse you about nose up. Nose angle is relative to the flight path of the throw. If I'm throwing upwards at 30 degrees above horizontal, I can have the nose at 30 degrees to horizontal and I'm throwing flat. I can have the nose at 20 degrees to horizontal, in which case it will be nose down to the flight path of the throw. Or at 40 degrees to horizontal, in which case it is 10 degrees nose up to flight path, and it will not go far.

You're probably doing both. The fix is different though.

 

[BillFleming]

YouTube is still free. Nets and baskets are comparatively cheap.

I have a practice basket in my backyard. The issue with YT is that you may think you are doing things correctly, but really aren't. That's what I found out with one of my lessons.....YT is a great way to learn how to do things....but, it doesn't mean you are copying it correctly....sometimes you need someone else to watch what you are doing and correct/point out any issues.

 

[Rickcin]

Great, you have half the problem solved.

Everyone I've seen throw those sky shots has been leaning back a bit and throwing with the throwing shoulder higher. And, I do it too from time to time, and then I get a turn and burn anny into the ground. So check out those shoulders. Ideally the throwing shoulder is lower at release - like a ball golfers is.

But let me unconfuse you about nose up. Nose angle is relative to the flight path of the throw. If I'm throwing upwards at 30 degrees above horizontal, I can have the nose at 30 degrees to horizontal and I'm throwing flat. I can have the nose at 20 degrees to horizontal, in which case it will be nose down to the flight path of the throw. Or at 40 degrees to horizontal, in which case it is 10 degrees nose up to flight path, and it will not go far.

You're probably doing both. The fix is different though.

Basically, from what I've read, the release of the disc should be parallel to the surface you are headed. Uphill, down hill or on a level area and that is how I determine the release angle, correct?

 

[ChrisinFL]

Basically, from what I've read, the release of the disc should be para to the surface you are headed. Uphill, down hill or on a level area and that is how I determine the release angle, correct?

I think that is probably a decent release for us beginners to aim for. I notice pros, on big distance bombs, are often throwing higher than the 5-10' above ground that works best for me, but I assume that is something for the future. Right now, if I throw higher, I just lose distance and accuracy. I am guessing the trick to that is a throw angled higher, but still nose down compared to throw angle, but even if that is correct, I am not ready for it. I feel like I still need to correct level, flat form, improve it, and cement the muscle memory, before messing around with height. Even hyzer and anhyzer releases are hard for me to get consistent at all right now.

 

[BillFleming]

I think that is probably a decent release for us beginners to aim for. I notice pros, on big distance bombs, are often throwing higher than the 5-10' above ground that works best for me, but I assume that is something for the future. Right now, if I throw higher, I just lose distance and accuracy. I am guessing the trick to that is a throw angled higher, but still nose down compared to throw angle, but even if that is correct, I am not ready for it. I feel like I still need to correct level, flat form, improve it, and cement the muscle memory, before messing around with height. Even hyzer and anhyzer releases are hard for me to get consistent at all right now.

The pros are throwing higher, towards the sky on flat ground, because they are throwing hyzers. The tendency of a hyzer throw is for the disc to 'get to the ground'. To keep the disc from going to the ground too soon, it needs to have more height. If you throw the same disc, the same speed, parallel to the ground; a flat throw will go further than a hyzer since the hyzer has more fade which will cause it to get to the ground quicker. As a beginner, when we throw hyzers, we should imagine it being an uphill throw. Hyzers still loose distance since the flight is more curved that if it was thrown straight.

Why throw hyzer? The reasons I can think of are: to get over or around an object. To land in a specific spot (a hyzer throw skips less than a flat throw - spike hyzers are called that because they spike into the ground, sometimes even 'tombstoning').

Go to a field, if you have multiples of the same disc, great...if not, you'll just have to do a bunch of back-and-forth walks. Throw the disc(s) parallel to the ground flat and then on different hyzer angles. You'll see that you lose distance the more hyzer you put on the disc. Now aim about 20 feet the air as though you are going over a tree or a house. Throw the same shots, flat, and different hyzers. See how the disc reacts and how much distance you get.

One way to get more distance is the hyzer flip. That is where you take an understable disc and throw it on a hyzer angle. The understability of the disc will cause it to 'flip' up out of the hyzer angle and hold straight longer. You have to put in some field work to figure out the proper hyzer angle for a hyzer flip. A -3 turn disc will need more hyzer than a -2 turn disc.....etc.....but how much hyzer is needed? That depends on how fast you throw the disc and only trial-and-error will let you find that sweet spot. Too much hyzer and the disc won't get to flat. Too little and the disc will flip over too much (what you hear pros call a flippy disc).

 

[Countchunkula]

The pros are throwing higher, towards the sky on flat ground, because they are throwing hyzers. The tendency of a hyzer throw is for the disc to 'get to the ground'. To keep the disc from going to the ground too soon, it needs to have more height. If you throw the same disc, the same speed, parallel to the ground; a flat throw will go further than a hyzer since the hyzer has more fade which will cause it to get to the ground quicker. As a beginner, when we throw hyzers, we should imagine it being an uphill throw. Hyzers still loose distance since the flight is more curved that if it was thrown straight.

Why throw hyzer? The reasons I can think of are: to get over or around an object. To land in a specific spot (a hyzer throw skips less than a flat throw - spike hyzers are called that because they spike into the ground, sometimes even 'tombstoning').

Go to a field, if you have multiples of the same disc, great...if not, you'll just have to do a bunch of back-and-forth walks. Throw the disc(s) parallel to the ground flat and then on different hyzer angles. You'll see that you lose distance the more hyzer you put on the disc. Now aim about 20 feet the air as though you are going over a tree or a house. Throw the same shots, flat, and different hyzers. See how the disc reacts and how much distance you get.

One way to get more distance is the hyzer flip. That is where you take an understable disc and throw it on a hyzer angle. The understability of the disc will cause it to 'flip' up out of the hyzer angle and hold straight longer. You have to put in some field work to figure out the proper hyzer angle for a hyzer flip. A -3 turn disc will need more hyzer than a -2 turn disc.....etc.....but how much hyzer is needed? That depends on how fast you throw the disc and only trial-and-error will let you find that sweet spot. Too much hyzer and the disc won't get to flat. Too little and the disc will flip over too much (what you hear pros call a flippy disc).

Re: the bold part

That's almost exactly the way I think about the high speed portion of an anhyzer throw. Hyzers, on the other hand, seem to gain height in the high speed portion on top of whatever increase you get from the trajectory. Once a disc thrown on hyzer slows down, agreed, it's trying to get to the ground.

 

[geebob]

I headed out today to improve/work on my driving and getting some distance beyond my usual 100 to 130 feet, pretty bad!

It seems all of my throws go high, hook way to the left and roll when hitting the ground.

I'm guessing I'm throwing nose up?

Ideally, how high should a disc travel and I'm guessing it should be parallel to the surface of the ground?

Here are a few things that helped me a lot. 1. Getting a proper reach back and throwing line (the "pull line) which will in itself fix a LOT of the problems you may be having. 2. Grip (can be a HUGE issue) the disc in a level or slightly nose down position 3. Release (or "snap") is not a conscious release of the disc, but a natural ripping of the disc from your fingers. I was where you are about two months ago. There are many really good responses on this thread and I think you can learn a lot.

If videos are a better medium, the ones that really helped me were these.

Throwing level:

Proper pull line:

Getting "snap": and

Best of luck!
Jeff

 

[ChrisinFL]

Here are a few things that helped me a lot. 1. Getting a proper reach back and throwing line (the "pull line) which will in itself fix a LOT of the problems you may be having. 2. Grip (can be a HUGE issue) the disc in a level or slightly nose down position 3. Release (or "snap") is not a conscious release of the disc, but a natural ripping of the disc from your fingers. I was where you are about two months ago. There are many really good responses on this thread and I think you can learn a lot.

If videos are a better medium, the ones that really helped me were these.

Throwing level:

Proper pull line:

Getting "snap": and

Best of luck!
Jeff

I have seen most or all of those. Scott Stokely - to me, he talks a long time to say just a little, but what few important tips he shares, I found mostly good and useful for my learning curve. I was starting my throw too soon, before I set my plant foot, and started working on correcting that from one of his videos. That was one of several small jumps in progress I have made, and I know I still have many more to come! I have a bunch of videos bookmarked, and go back every now and then to watch again - some things you see/hear, but just aren't ready for, and further down the road, you might be ready!

 

[Rickcin]

Here are a few things that helped me a lot. 1. Getting a proper reach back and throwing line (the "pull line) which will in itself fix a LOT of the problems you may be having. 2. Grip (can be a HUGE issue) the disc in a level or slightly nose down position 3. Release (or "snap") is not a conscious release of the disc, but a natural ripping of the disc from your fingers. I was where you are about two months ago. There are many really good responses on this thread and I think you can learn a lot.

If videos are a better medium, the ones that really helped me were these.

Throwing level:

Proper pull line:

Getting "snap": and

Best of luck!
Jeff

Excellent information, thank you!

 

[Rickcin]

I have seen most or all of those. Scott Stokely - to me, he talks a long time to say just a little, but what few important tips he shares, I found mostly good and useful for my learning curve. I was starting my throw too soon, before I set my plant foot, and started working on correcting that from one of his videos. That was one of several small jumps in progress I have made, and I know I still have many more to come! I have a bunch of videos bookmarked, and go back every now and then to watch again - some things you see/hear, but just aren't ready for, and further down the road, you might be ready!

He is long winded but explains really well.

 

[ChrisinFL]

He is long winded but explains really well.

Yup!

 

[Naenae]

I have a practice basket in my backyard. The issue with YT is that you may think you are doing things correctly, but really aren't. That's what I found out with one of my lessons.....YT is a great way to learn how to do things....but, it doesn't mean you are copying it correctly....sometimes you need someone else to watch what you are doing and correct/point out any issues.

Totally agree that in person lessons are better, but on retirement income they aren't going to happen for me. YouTube gets me 70% of what I probably need.

 

[ChrisinFL]

UTube videos to see correct form, and hear what to do, is a great start. IMHO, combining that with video of yourself throwing, slowed down and evaluated frame by frame, is what helps me way more. Only when I watched video of my throw did I realize, my throw, in my head, in my mind, what I thought I was doing - it was NOTHING like what I was actually doing. That sounds crazy, but it is completely true. I would have swore my throw was straight through, into and out of 'the power pocket', then I watched my first video and saw for a fact I was rounding my throw like crazy, every time! One by one, I found and fixed 3-4 things, and I am still working on more. Lessons with the right coach would very likely help me progress more, faster, but watching 'pros' videos, tips, combined with regular video footage of my throws, and trying to gradually transform my fiasco into their amazing throws, is a decent compromise. Lots of practice, playing, studying required, of course, but needed either way. Disc Golf is a blast. Addictive, fun, and especially so every time you improve. Also great exercise - I dropped a belt size already!

 

[geebob]

I have seen most or all of those. Scott Stokely - to me, he talks a long time to say just a little, but what few important tips he shares, I found mostly good and useful for my learning curve.

I agree, but I also find that many other video tips and instruction videos leave out important components that render the information useless. A quick example is one of Ulibarri's (another of my favorites) videos where he explains how to grip a disc, but never really showed his finger placement or how the disc looked in his hand. When I was starting out, I completely misinterpreted what he was explaining and spent three weeks throwing nose up and getting increasingly annoyed with myself. Then I stumbled upon another video that showed me exactly what I should have been doing.

Maybe it's just a good example of why a lecture tends to be one of the worst methods of teaching. The more advanced students get bored if it is too basic and slow, while those just starting can get left behind. I'm just glad that we have the excellent variety of videos so at least I have a chance of learning at my slower pace and with an incredibly low threshold of frustration.

 

[ChrisinFL]

There is definitely no lack of videos out there, and quality varies. Plus, the process of trying to learn and incorporate improvements can feel so dang slow at times! But, I know for me, it was a very frustrating dead end until I incorporated watching video of myself. As long as what you think you are doing is different from what you are actually doing, and for me it was way different, then you are beating your head against a wall. You either need a coach to point out your issues, or video so you can see it for yourself, or best of all, fastest path to getting better - both. But, I try to remember, I am not in a race, never going to be turning pro or anything, and it's okay to slow down and just enjoy the journey!

 

[BillFleming]

I agree, but I also find that many other video tips and instruction videos leave out important components that render the information useless. A quick example is one of Ulibarri's (another of my favorites) videos where he explains how to grip a disc, but never really showed his finger placement or how the disc looked in his hand. When I was starting out, I completely misinterpreted what he was explaining and spent three weeks throwing nose up and getting increasingly annoyed with myself. Then I stumbled upon another video that showed me exactly what I should have been doing.

Maybe it's just a good example of why a lecture tends to be one of the worst methods of teaching. The more advanced students get bored if it is too basic and slow, while those just starting can get left behind. I'm just glad that we have the excellent variety of videos so at least I have a chance of learning at my slower pace and with an incredibly low threshold of frustration.

I agree....a lot of YT coaches, show the bottom of the disc when they show grip, but they rarely show where their thumb is on the top. That drove me crazy trying to figure out where my thumb should be.

 

[ChrisinFL]

I agree....a lot of YT coaches, show the bottom of the disc when they show grip, but they rarely show where their thumb is on the top. That drove me crazy trying to figure out where my thumb should be.

I have experimented a little, trying my thumb in many different places - forward, back, further toward disc center or edge - and really haven't noticed much difference. I tried making sure I got it directly over an underneath finger. But, I have heard/seen many people say to press the thumb harder, especially just as the disc is about to release, and when enough people say it, probably something to it, so I want to mess with that more at some point. Just, right now, playing with multiple recent changes, so it isn't a priority. I still have to think about planting first before starting my throw, reach back fully, keep disc close to chest, and one change still just starting to really work on - trying to start arm slow and loose, let hips twitch to start, shoulder follows, and arm whips late in the throw (not muscling the throw with all arm). Yeah, it's a lot. Plus, make sure I keep the disc flat/level, too. It is a lot to try to remember and try to get right all at once, in the tiny time space of a throw. But, I have been getting a bit more distance, and a bit more consistent, lately, while working on implementing these improvements, so happy about that! Feels like I am in the two step forward part of the process, and not the one step back, so that helps a lot when it comes to enjoying the journey.

 

[BillFleming]

I have experimented a little, trying my thumb in many different places - forward, back, further toward disc center or edge - and really haven't noticed much difference. I tried making sure I got it directly over an underneath finger. But, I have heard/seen many people say to press the thumb harder, especially just as the disc is about to release, and when enough people say it, probably something to it, so I want to mess with that more at some point. Just, right now, playing with multiple recent changes, so it isn't a priority. I still have to think about planting first before starting my throw, reach back fully, keep disc close to chest, and one change still just starting to really work on - trying to start arm slow and loose, let hips twitch to start, shoulder follows, and arm whips late in the throw (not muscling the throw with all arm). Yeah, it's a lot. Plus, make sure I keep the disc flat/level, too. It is a lot to try to remember and try to get right all at once, in the tiny time space of a throw. But, I have been getting a bit more distance, and a bit more consistent, lately, while working on implementing these improvements, so happy about that! Feels like I am in the two step forward part of the process, and not the one step back, so that helps a lot when it comes to enjoying the journey.

OverThrow has done videos with the TechDisc and different grips; one focused on thumb pressure. The data seems to show that putting pressure on the thumb causes a more nose down angle of the disc. I've been trying that and it does appear to be true.....now if I can only stop changing my grip in the middle of my throw. That's currently my #1 issue.

 

[Rickcin]

Speaking of GRIP, I haven't been seriously look into that until just recently and have questions regarding the grip.

Most all videos recommend a four finger bottom grip with the thumb on top close to edge where the top of the disc is stiff.

Since I've started playing weeks ago, I've been throwing with three fingers under while my index finger rests (comfortable hand position) on the side of the disc. Now I've spotted a video that shows that exact hand position just for putting.

So now I'm thinking I better redo and learn to throw with four fingers on the bottom of the disc and perhaps that will enable me to gain some distance when throwing ?