Excessive Time

[flowinowen]

Hello everyone,

Before I start, if there is a thread on this topic, please direct me there!

BUT - when does the count officially begin for excessive time - upshots and putts? For example, you have a difficult lie and it takes a while to figure out what shot you want to do. When does that 30 second time limit start?

 

[JC17393]

Hello everyone,

Before I start, if there is a thread on this topic, please direct me there!

BUT - when does the count officially begin for excessive time - upshots and putts? For example, you have a difficult lie and it takes a while to figure out what shot you want to do. When does that 30 second time limit start?

804.01 Excessive Time

A. A maximum of 30 seconds is allowed to each player to make a throw after:

1. The previous player has thrown; and,
2. The player has had a reasonable amount of time to arrive at the disc; and,
3. The playing area is clear and free of distractions.​

That's the rule. If you are the away player, once you arrive at your disc, the clock should start immediately unless there is something or someone on the fairway that would prevent you from safely making a throw.

Figuring out what shot you want to throw is supposed to be part of the 30 seconds (assuming you're not thinking about that en route to the disc) no matter what your lie looks like. A difficult lie really doesn't qualify as a "distraction" though with such a lie, your group might give you a bit of leeway time-wise, but they're not obligated to do so.

 

[Martin Dewgarita]

Who's to say what a distraction is? It is not defined. I'm distracted by that bird, or a player in another fairway, or a passing car, or somebody coughs, or a cool looking rock, or a full bladder - does the timer reset or merely pause until said distraction passes..

 

[DavidSauls]

Who's to say what a distraction is? It is not defined. I'm distracted by that bird, or a player in another fairway, or a passing car, or somebody coughs, or a cool looking rock, or a full bladder - does the timer reset or merely pause until said distraction passes..

I'm distracted by the passage of time.

 

[flowinowen]

So the conceptualizing/setting up the throw is considered in the thirty seconds? It sounds like from the three rule criteria once the lie is marked and the ground is playable THEN the count begins. The only reason I am looking for clarity is if I needed to take additional time for an awkward lie. I don't want to needlessly put an additional time pressure on my game.

Who's to say what a distraction is? It is not defined. I'm distracted by that bird, or a player in another fairway, or a passing car, or somebody coughs, or a cool looking rock, or a full bladder - does the timer reset or merely pause until said distraction passes..

Good addition. Sometimes I'll reset my putt if I hear my inner dialogue mess with me.

 

[mark996]

From what I've experienced and been a part of during tournaments, you don't have anything to worry about unless you're seriously taking forever every shot. Last weekend I had a guy on my card who got off in some thick crap. It took him at least 30 seconds to get to his disc, probably another 30 seconds to get his lie, more time to scope his line and prep, then finally execute. After a while a cardmate looked at me with this puzzled look wondering if the guy was ever going to throw, but he did right after that. I'm sure some people will call time, and I'm not saying it shouldn't ever be called, but I don't think you need to have someone with a stop watch timing every shot.

 

[mark996]

Wanted to add...in tournaments, especially bigger events sometimes you'll just have to feel the card out to see what they're going to call or how they're going to be. At times you may have a stickler for the rules and calls everything, or you may have a card that probably couldn't tell you what a foot fault was and think it's ok to throw from beside the disc.

 

[Kodachrome]

I'm sorry, but unless you are completely in the **** or have a real awkward position, you don't need extra time to "conceptualize" your throw.

Get to your lie and set your stuff down. Basically what was quoted above, directly from the rules. You don't get to count marking your lie as arriving at the lie. That would give you infinite time before time starts being counted. 30 seconds is quite enough, and most people take too long.

 

[mark996]

Agreed, if you're in the middle of the fairway, or in the open at least, there's no reason to sit there and take excessive time planning your shot. I usually know exactly what I'm reaching for and what shot I want to execute before I even get to the disc.

 

[teemkey]

If a player cannot see the line from his lie to the target or lay up position, then I think he should be able to advance to a position where he can determine the line needs to throw, then return to his disc before starting the timer. I suppose what I'm saying is that not knowing where to throw your shot is a distraction.

 

[DavidSauls]

The 30-second rule is a prod. It's rarely called, but its existence means that most players, most of the time, throw reasonably promptly. In cases where someone abuses it, and particularly abuses it repeatedly, the rule gives the group a tool to deal with the problem.

 

[Jay Dub]

The 30-second rule is a prod. It's rarely called, but its existence means that most players, most of the time, throw reasonably promptly. In cases where someone abuses it, and particularly abuses it repeatedly, the rule gives the group a tool to deal with the problem.

Exactly. The only time I was involved in calling a rule in a PDGA tournament I seconded another after the guy took about two minutes trying out different stances and ended up using his first one, which was the only stance he could have used.

And he had been slow the whole round to that point. It caused no trouble and he picked up his pace.

 

[mark996]

I'm not sure I agree with the "blind shot" deal. If you don't have a spotter there, and for the safety of the card in front, you can't tell if it's clear or not, sure that's one thing. But just because you can't see the line you want to hit, or want to look and see what's up there, if it's on a 900+ foot dogleg right, I'm not sure that's really feasible to let them walk all the way down the fairway to line their shot.

 

[DavidSauls]

There are certainly legitimate complaints. But 30 seconds can be longer than it seems, too. I know I've been annoyed with extremely slow players, to the point that I decided to watch my watch, only to find he was only really taking about 30-35 seconds.

 

[Karl]

Half of the "time issue" in dg is the fact that some players are A. talking about God know what with other players, B. smoking / drinking, and C. walking slowly. People will say that these things 'don't slow things down' but they do! It may not be 'as fun' but not doing A-C above will speed up things.

 

[PhattD]

There's a big question about what does arrive at your disc mean. We timed the amount of time starting from when the player first arrived at the disc with his bag still on his back. It was a completely open 30' putt. Setting the bag down, marking the disc, replacing the thrown disc in the bag, removing the putter, lining up and sinking the putt, took 26 seconds. Once you have the disc you want to throw and go to your mark, 30 seconds is way more time than you need. If you want to expect someone to search the woods for there disc and then give them 30 seconds once they find it to mark it, select a disc, line up your shot, and throw, you'll call this penalty a lot.

 

[Timeetyo]

There's a big question about what does arrive at your disc mean. We timed the amount of time starting from when the player first arrived at the disc with his bag still on his back. It was a completely open 30' putt. Setting the bag down, marking the disc, replacing the thrown disc in the bag, removing the putter, lining up and sinking the putt, took 26 seconds. Once you have the disc you want to throw and go to your mark, 30 seconds is way more time than you need. If you want to expect someone to search the woods for there disc and then give them 30 seconds once they find it to mark it, select a disc, line up your shot, and throw, you'll call this penalty a lot.

And this is why this rule is rarely called. In reality I have only ever seen it called on habitual abusers, not on that ONE shot that was buried in the bush and it took a bit to get situated and figure out how you were going to bushwack out of it. Per the letter of the law this would be in violation of the rule most times for these circumstances. Just don't pull a Philo at the memorial and you'll be fine. Besides, the first call is only a warning so if it does happen THEN be aware of it going forward.

 

[flowinowen]

Just don't pull a Philo at the memorial and you'll be fine. Besides, the first call is only a warning so if it does happen THEN be aware of it going forward.

This was where my initial question came from - some PHP video I watched where he had to putt splitting a fallen tree.

 

[coupe]

So the conceptualizing/setting up the throw is considered in the thirty seconds? It sounds like from the three rule criteria once the lie is marked and the ground is playable THEN the count begins.

No. It begins when the player ARRIVES at the disc, not when the lie is marked.

Prior to the 2013 Rules revision, the Excessive Time read:

801.03 Excessive Time:
A. A maximum of 30 seconds is allowed to each player to make a throw after:
(1) the previous player has thrown; and,
(2) the player has taken a reasonable time to arrive at the disc and mark the lie; and,
(3) the playing area is clear and free of distractions/quote]

Problem is that some players (Dave Feldberg, cough, cough) could (and regularly did) arrive at their lie, put down their bag, grab their mini, and stand over their thrown disc for minutes at a time waiting for the wind to die down/rain to let up/their head to clear/sizing up lines lines/trying various stances/channeling their inner bliss/the omens were propitious/whatever before marking their lie. And then take ANOTHER 30-45 seconds to actually throw. ON. EVERY. STINKIN'. THROW.

 

[IHearChains]

I'm not sure I agree with the "blind shot" deal. If you don't have a spotter there, and for the safety of the card in front, you can't tell if it's clear or not, sure that's one thing. But just because you can't see the line you want to hit, or want to look and see what's up there, if it's on a 900+ foot dogleg right, I'm not sure that's really feasible to let them walk all the way down the fairway to line their shot.

I don't think the rule specifies the path one must take to "arrive at the lie", so if you don't know where the basket is, it makes sense to choose a path that allows a view of the basket before "arriving at the lie".