Forehand, Stability, and OAT

[dsb1829]

Nice thread Mike!

I have been using FH as a utility shot. Not a shot I go to for max distnce. I can't say rim depth messes with me. Maybe my hands are big enough that it isn't a problem. I FH putters about the same as drivers grip wise. Main issues I have are wrist roll and the occasional grounder 100-150' out.

 

[Fraser]

I will start by saying I am pretty bad at forehand. Before this season I had never even attempted one drive with it and I would only use a forehand shot for get out of trouble situations. This year I decided I would try and learn for holes that basically required the shot.

Everyone kept telling me to use my firebird or similar. I could not use it to save my life, or a teebird, or TL for that matter. The two discs that ended working for me? A Valkyrie and a Glide. The Valk was the first disc I could actually drive forehand. Granted it is only for short holes but, there are holes now that I can park forehand and miss big time backhand.

I even recommend to a beginner I was playing with to try his Valk backhand. He was trying to toss a nuke and some other OS disc all day. His first flick with the Valk was his single longest drive of the day. I tired it just out of frustration because I never thought it would work since it wasn't overstable like everyone was telling me to throw. When that thing launched out flat and took off with no flutter at all I was amazed. Now I'm only throwing it and working on getting a little bit more distance at a time. Once I get to a decent place then I will mix in other discs.

That's great that you are getting some success with your FH. Both of those molds mentioned (Valk and Glide) don't require a lot of power to get-up-and-go. The Valk was the disc that really opened up my eyes. Before that, I was throwing HSOS discs. Hit metal on my first throw with a Valk on a frozen-rope. I throw a putter now on that specific hole. It's amazing what can be done when you correct your form flaws. The Glide should really help you in fixing any issues you might have but it might be a little too understable though. Just as OS discs can teach you how to torque everything, discs that are too US can slow down your development. Once you start increasing the spin on your discs, the more that Glide will be US and turn too much.

Thanks Fraser and Voltron Don.... good suggestions which I will incorporate into my field work. Valks were suggested by a friend of mine also since they are so versatile, so I've picked up a couple recently to test out.

Good luck in your field work. I would not forsake your slower neutral discs though. While the Valk is a great disc FH or BH, it can still be a little too fast if you are just starting to get the feel of how to throw a FH. I can't express this enough, being able to FH your putters and mids can open a lot of doors up for how you play. It can be very useful when you are faced with tight fairways with low ceilings that require you to land flat.

Nice thread Mike!

I have been using FH as a utility shot. Not a shot I go to for max distnce. I can't say rim depth messes with me. Maybe my hands are big enough that it isn't a problem. I FH putters about the same as drivers grip wise. Main issues I have are wrist roll and the occasional grounder 100-150' out.

I have pretty small hands so I don't think that hand-size is a pre-requisite to being able to grip deep rims. It only takes a little practice with different depth rims to find a grip that is comfortable that gives you the results you are looking for. Wrist roll is one of those things all FHers will struggle with. I know I still do. I just know how to correct the problem when it rears its' ugly head. Having those grounders is another thing that is quite common with a FH. Discs tend to be released lower than a BH and when you are learning how to throw, I feel that it is also a lo easier to throw too low with a FH than a BH.

 

[tylerc]

I started out as a majorly forehand dominate player and still am on short game. but I would say a great disc to learn forehand with is a champ sidewinder. that is what I started with and it quickly teaches you to throw hyzers. since learning backhand through now I throw 50-50 off the tee but I throw both the same distance about 425. but my favorite thing to throw sidearm is mids especially my comet and a beat in wasp. by far my favorite.

 

[Fraser]

I started out as a majorly forehand dominate player and still am on short game. but I would say a great disc to learn forehand with is a champ sidewinder. that is what I started with and it quickly teaches you to throw hyzers. since learning backhand through now I throw 50-50 off the tee but I throw both the same distance about 425. but my favorite thing to throw sidearm is mids especially my comet and a beat in wasp. by far my favorite.

When I started, I couldn't FH a sidewinder at all. Thought it was the disc. Of course it was just me trying to torque it. I still haven't thrown one since I rebuilt my throw but I would imagine it would be a good disc to teach one to throw hyzers and hyzer-flips. Like you, I started as a FH dominate player and have added a BH to my repertoire. My short-game is also FH dominate. I'm also 50/50 off the tee but my FH is in the 400' range and my BH is in the 320' range. I just recently put a couple of Comets back in the bag and I just love throwing it FH and BH. I also love hearing comments along the lines of "what disc was that!?" and "you just sidearmed a Comet?!?". Especially from other FH dominate players. I like to tell those players "If you can FH a Comet, you can FH anything."

 

[bfowler]

Wow. I've watch Mike video on this before and my forehand has gotten better to where I can actually use it on a course but I can never flick putters because they get caught on my fingers.

Watching Mike's video again I really noticed something I didn't before. With his grip he's pressing his finger pads into the faceplate. My are usually faced in towards the inner rim.

In the backyard I just altered my grip to Mike and threw my Eclipse Ion on a rope. Holy sidearm Batman! Really pushing it into and behind that first big knuckle on my pointer finger and pinching that same finger instead of my middle finger made all the difference. The snap is now much more from my wrist than my shoulder and finger.

Great post! Can't wait til daylight to see what this does with Drivers.

 

[Fraser]

Nice bfowler! Sounds like you changed your grip to more of a control grip. All it takes is a little experimentation to find something that is going to work for you. I hope it translates into more control and distance with less "power". Those frozen ropes are awesome, aren't they?

 

[waddleman]

Think somebody mentioned it already, but dear lord sidewinders. I drive basically all FH thanks to those lovely discs. My champ sidewinder probably sees more work off the tee than all the rest of my high speed drivers put together, and my DX is great for annys, hyzer flips that'll finish left, flex shots that need to start hard left, and standstill drives.

I think the biggest problem people have with focusing on all the OS discs is that they place so much focus on how "hard" you throw the disc, when in reality if it feels like you're throwing it hard you're problably hurting yourself and torquing the crap out of it. I know that's how I started out, and for ages I was driving everything except an XCal into the dirt most every throw.

I'll still bust out the XCal these days if I need it, but most of my shots are with my Scout (I know gateway, but they just kinda click for me) or my Cyclones. Focusing on the elbow always helps me, thinking about throwing my elbow forward at the target and then bringing my hips and arm through to generate power is what always seems to get me those 6-9 feet high laser beam shots.

 

[storyboy]

Think somebody mentioned it already, but dear lord sidewinders. I drive basically all FH thanks to those lovely discs. My champ sidewinder probably sees more work off the tee than all the rest of my high speed drivers put together, and my DX is great for annys, hyzer flips that'll finish left, flex shots that need to start hard left, and standstill drives.

I think the biggest problem people have with focusing on all the OS discs is that they place so much focus on how "hard" you throw the disc, when in reality if it feels like you're throwing it hard you're problably hurting yourself and torquing the crap out of it. I know that's how I started out, and for ages I was driving everything except an XCal into the dirt most every throw.

I'll still bust out the XCal these days if I need it, but most of my shots are with my Scout (I know gateway, but they just kinda click for me) or my Cyclones. Focusing on the elbow always helps me, thinking about throwing my elbow forward at the target and then bringing my hips and arm through to generate power is what always seems to get me those 6-9 feet high laser beam shots.

Love my Scout! Very accurate up to 300':clap:

 

[JedV]

Huge thanks are owed to Fraser, bfowler and MikeC! It turns out that the reason my forehand throws were oatty and prone to diving into the dirt was all to do with my grip.

I was using a power grip (with the pads of my fingers pressed against the rim) that I learned from a friend, but as it turns out I am not him, nor do I have his skills. Today I tried using a control grip (with the pads of my fingers up against the flight plate). Holy crap, smooth, effortless and clean release.

I realised how unnatural the other grip was for my arm and how it caused me to automatically roll my wrist during the follow through, thus causing OAT.

This is going to be huge for my game Try experimenting with different grips and see what happens.

 

[xlhammy]

Huge thanks are owed to Fraser, bfowler and MikeC! It turns out that the reason my forehand throws were oatty and prone to diving into the dirt was all to do with my grip.

I was using a power grip (with the pads of my fingers pressed against the rim) that I learned from a friend, but as it turns out I am not him, nor do I have his skills. Today I tried using a control grip (with the pads of my fingers up against the flight plate). Holy crap, smooth, effortless and clean release.

I realised how unnatural the other grip was for my arm and how it caused me to automatically roll my wrist during the follow through, thus causing OAT.

This is going to be huge for my game Try experimenting with different grips and see what happens.

Dying to get out and throw tomorrow to test out some things I've learned via the forums this week. Glad to hear the sidearm has improved JedV... hoping I can replicate your success tomorrow! Forecast is 32 and snow, so should be fun!

 

[Fraser]

That's great news there JedV. I'm glad just changing your grip helped you smooth things out. I can't really FH well with a power grip either. The control grip is much easier for me but it is also the grip that I naturally threw with when I started throwing. When I started, I was the only FHer that I knew of. I also didn't know about any sites where there was a discussion on technique so I am more than happy to share what I learned virtually on my own. I wish you the best in getting more proficient with your FH.

 

[The dude on the bike]

think linear, like a manual clay pigeon launcher.

 

[xlhammy]

This is huge IMHO and not mentioned enough. I see people claiming turn over all the time when the throw was an anny to begin with.

Recorded some FH throws of mine from behind me as I threw, and this was EXACTLY what was happening. I had no idea since I couldn't tell as I threw from my perspective as it happened. Throwing OS discs as FH masked this as well since it would just flex back to the right.

I've spent a good chunk of this week trying different grips, angles, etc and just throwing stable putters and mids into the back of an old couch in the basement to get a feel for what works. Even on a short throw like that, I could see OAT and angles at the point of release even though the flight path wasn't fully executed since it hit the couch.

I think I've found something that has felt very good for me and looked the same as it's come out of my hand. Planning to go throw practice at a local field here in a bit and see if it holds true when the disc can fly all the way to the ground. Hoping this works out!

 

[notroman]

Mike, you brought up some excellent and valid points.

I throw primarily FH and like to think my form is pretty clean. I flick Eagle-L's to 320' on crisp hyzer flip lines a day to day basis and can hit ~380' with them on open distance lines. I have thrown 450'+ on my best throws and can regularly hit 420' with distance drivers. Despite this, I struggle to find consistency with putter mid-range flicks farther than 200' On my best days I can get Buzzz's out to 320', but on a bad day I will flip them trying to throw 275'. The follow-through point makes a lot of sense and I will be paying more attention to that leading into next season and throughout the winter.

These consistency issues also amplify when I am trying to hit a specific line in the woods. I defaulted to throwing a beat to crap 10x Eagle-L for tight tunnels and other short touch shots just because of the improved consistency in hitting lines. Consistent shaped lines with putters and mids its definitely something I want to get better at for next season.

The one key I have found that helps me to clean up my mid and putter flicks is that I hold the disc as loosely as possible in my grip. I know I likely tighten down right at the hit. I would guess the loose grip helps keep my arm relaxed and slow, so that spin dominates the throw.

I have some slow-mo videos of him throwing forehand. He is throwing turnover shots in all these videos (basket is on top of the hill in the trees on the left). 392ft uphill. First video is Eagle-L, the other two are VIP Swords.

 

[cubeofsoup]

that is some really nice forehand form. the Eagle-L shot was such a nice release.

 

[arodsteezy]

Granted, I'm not an expert flicker but my advice to Jax would be to throw mids and putters closer to flat. Focus on throwing smooth and loose and don't be afraid to power it down like a lot. When I used to throw putters forehand I would overcompensate with the hyzer and end up following through on a lower plane.