Grip Questions

[daniebl2]

How much nose down do the discs have when they are flat in the air? How high are the discs at their highest with which discs? Maybe you can gain more distance by changing flight lines now that your form and maybe power has changed.

Nose down angle? I've always been a little confused by that term.....my pivot / release angle is maybe 20 degree nose down.
It's always been hard for me to tell when watching the disc in flight.
I can always see the top or back edge during the initial part of the throw..since I generally throw low. My drives are always line drives.....they climb to maybe 20-25ft before they flip....at that point: I maybe get 20-30 degrees nose down. Is that what your reffering too?

 

[JR]

How much nose down do the discs have when they are flat in the air? How high are the discs at their highest with which discs? Maybe you can gain more distance by changing flight lines now that your form and maybe power has changed.

Nose down angle? I've always been a little confused by that term.....my pivot / release angle is maybe 20 degree nose down.
It's always been hard for me to tell when watching the disc in flight.
I can always see the top or back edge during the initial part of the throw..since I generally throw low. My drives are always line drives.....they climb to maybe 20-25ft before they flip....at that point: I maybe get 20-30 degrees nose down. Is that what your reffering too?

Exactly if by nose you mean the closest part of the disc to the basket and the disc flips to horizontal position. In this case the nose is the closest part of the disc to the basket. It needs to be lower than the tail of the disc. Looking from the side the angle of the disc compared to the horizon is nose 20-30 degrees below the horizon for you when the disc flips. And 20 degrees at the rip. Note that I'm not 100 % certain about the terminology.

If you mean that the nose is the to the right of the edge of the disc from the closest part of the disc to the basket then this is not what's meant by having the nose down. This is called anhyzer angle. So the disc is rotated 20 degrees clockwise from the horizon. That's not helping as much as is optimal to geting the front of the disc below the horizon.

Judging by that you said that always throw line drives I assume you flip the disc to flat and the front of the disc is below the rear of the disc. I'm so glad that you can have so much nose down. I'm stuck at 3-5 degrees at best and usually only 2 when throwing at the height the discl eaves my hand. So I can really appreciate how important getting as much nose down as you do is.

I'm not sure if that much angle is necessary for so low throws you are doing. I'd try to give as much nose down angle as you do now but raise the throw in 3' increments to see where your current maximum distance is.

 

[daniebl2]

Exactly if by nose you mean the closest part of the disc to the basket and the disc flips to horizontal position. In this case the nose is the closest part of the disc to the basket. It needs to be lower than the tail of the disc. Looking from the side the angle of the disc compared to the horizon is nose 20-30 degrees below the horizon for you when the disc flips. And 20 degrees at the rip. Note that I'm not 100 % certain about the terminology.

That is what I'm reffering to.

I'm not sure if that much angle is necessary for so low throws you are doing. I'd try to give as much nose down angle as you do now but raise the throw in 3' increments to see where your current maximum distance is.

I would agree with you that I'm now throwing too low or with not enough hyzer....if I get a good rip the disc will flip and hit the ground before it flexes. I still need to get consistant with the new technique. I did throw again today, and the distance is still there so I'm happy.

 

[JR]

Exactly if by nose you mean the closest part of the disc to the basket and the disc flips to horizontal position. In this case the nose is the closest part of the disc to the basket. It needs to be lower than the tail of the disc. Looking from the side the angle of the disc compared to the horizon is nose 20-30 degrees below the horizon for you when the disc flips. And 20 degrees at the rip. Note that I'm not 100 % certain about the terminology.

That is what I'm reffering to.

I'm not sure if that much angle is necessary for so low throws you are doing. I'd try to give as much nose down angle as you do now but raise the throw in 3' increments to see where your current maximum distance is.

I would agree with you that I'm now throwing too low or with not enough hyzer....if I get a good rip the disc will flip and hit the ground before it flexes. I still need to get consistant with the new technique. I did throw again today, and the distance is still there so I'm happy.

It's good to hear. Flat discs flex out a lot slower than domey discs if they are equally low speed overstable. SOLF wil take forever to flex and needs huge height as an example. Check out domey discs that are 3 or more for LSS on the JFC.

 

[JR]

In the thread Try this for getting the nose down Bradley Walker mentioned crutches. The grip that I described in an earlier post in this thread was certainly that. I got that grip to work to show that it can display what nose down looks like. As luck would have it I probably won't need this as a crutch for getting the nose down with real throws. I have to try it on proper throws when I can. I'm able to play on sunday at the earliest.

I think I have found the cure to raising wrist in the middle of the throw. I have at least a partial solution that needs powered throws to verify the usefulness of my finding. I threw at my couch from 10' with maybe about 35' of power. At first I used the grips I've used so far and mostly the nose was flat. That is horrible considering that I putt from farther away than I put power into these throws.

Pushing down on the flight plate with the thumb simultaneously pushing towards the side against the fingers under the disc was only a partial solution to me and I couldn't get meaningful angles regardless of the power with the thumb. What helped me keep the nose down so that the discs were between 10 and 15 degrees nose down when in the air was tightening my grip with my index finger and pulling towards and down the rim at maybe around 45 degrees angle relative to vertical axis. When compared to what black udder wrote in his post in this thread pulling with the index finger seems to be the key to getting the wrist to stay down. In the words of Aaron D my grip mechanics weren't what they should have been.

I stood upright and the throws were done at constant shoulder height. This means that I finally could get enough nose down from the wrist only to have the disc in proper attitude in the air. I'm really itching to get to try my luck with real drives to see if I can keep the nose down with more power and start learning how I need to adjust the height I'm throwing to. And how that changes the arm plane and hyzer angles. With increased distance I expect less lateral movement in the flight path which is nice because there are lots of tunnels around here.

With all the grip variations I tried pulling down and towards the base of that finger worked well. All of these grips had the index finger against the rim. I haven't tried with fingers on the wing or below the rim yet. For the grips with the index finger on the rim the nose down angle was around the same although I didn't pay particular attention to that. I also didn't yet check muscle tension. Tightening my index finger naturally tightened my forearm muscles also. But the cost to arm speed should still be negligible even for me in comparison with the benefits of having true meaningful nose down angle on my throws. I have an injury that tightens my muscles with less finger stretching and powering than healthy people's muscles do.

Thanks guys!

Edit: I forgot to mention that the discs flew flat wihout hyzer or anhyzer.

 

[Andy11xroc]

I just want some tips on putting with ss wizards. I love the way they feel in my hand. I just seem to be missing more putts since i switched from JK pro aviars to wizards. I used to putt flat with the jk's i seem to have to put on a hyzer with the ss wizards. Any tips would be much appreciated. Thanks -Andrew Engelking

 

[JR]

Welcome. Why do you think you need hyzer with the Wizard? Wizard flies just fine thrown flat. With so little information it's difficult to say anything. Can you post a video of JK and Wiz putting? Do the discs scrape along the fingers?