Grip Questions

[daniebl2]

I'm working on improving my grip and wanted to get some expert input....I've read all articles on grip posted here, Innova's site and even Mr. Climo's. My questions are many....

1) Does it matter what type of throwing style (bent elbow vs. full reach back) in terms of pressure points? I've seen articles stating that the main focus should be into the palm of the hand along the crease at the hit and others state that the focus is between the index finger and thumb pad. I'm trying to throw bent elbow, and my thinking is that it's better to focus on the pinch between the index and thumb pad. This would help with getting some acceleration on the disc pivot.


2) The thumb pad pressure can be directed….does it matter which direction? By this I mean it can be pushed with the pivot of the disc (like snapping your fingers) or against the pivot.
3) Also, how much downward thumb pad pressure does everyone use and is it directed? Forward or backwards if the thumb nail is pointed straight up in front of you. In the past, I did little more than rest my thumb on top of the disc.
4) Is there a grip that is better suited for smaller hands? Especially in trying to get and keep the nose down. (I've tried the boneapane; I'm not a big fan)

 

[Timko]

I have smaller hands (and skinny fingers), and I like a lot of fan/fork/birdie grips. I do not like to have more than 3 fingers on the disc at any one time (and almost always throw with my ring finger stacked on my pinky).


I would love to hear some peoples ideas on thumb pressure, both in the direction and the strength. I'm not sure, but it seems like rolling the thumb would flip the wing, making it easier to throw a hyzer-flip. But that's just a total guess. I'll try and mess around with it after league tomorrow night.

 

[masterbeato]

Grip determines the potential power you can generate from the throw. I have big hands, so naturally I have a strong grip, but I still grip it nice and tight for me. I use the power grip and the fan grip for touch. Pressure points I dont think really matters in a case of bent elbow or reach back. Grip it tight and rip it. Focus the pressure between your thumb and your index finger. Other fingers are there for support.

 

[mcoppel1]

I have been working on the bonepane for the past 6 weeks. For the first two weeks I was in field only, every day throwing 2-3 hundred at a time. Distance suffered, but I would notice really nice lines, although they were off a lot. Week 3-4 I started getting deadly accurate, ad now I have been working on more power.

This grip is awesome, but takes time to get use to. I am now throwing 30-50 feet further and on better more accurate lines. I know I still have the potential for more distance, but I am building up slowly.

Also in the midst of the grip changes I started using the hop x step, instead of the full reach back x-step.

 

[JR]

I have been working on the bonepane for the past 6 weeks. For the first two weeks I was in field only, every day throwing 2-3 hundred at a time. Distance suffered, but I would notice really nice lines, although they were off a lot. Week 3-4 I started getting deadly accurate, ad now I have been working on more power.

This grip is awesome, but takes time to get use to. I am now throwing 30-50 feet further and on better more accurate lines. I know I still have the potential for more distance, but I am building up slowly.

Also in the midst of the grip changes I started using the hop x step, instead of the full reach back x-step.

Congratulations! Distance and accuracy in 6 weeks is quick progress indeed. You are probably in good shape because you can throw so many throws each day. For seeing what you're really capable of I suggest taking a couple of days off for recuperation. I've had almost 50' differences in the best distances of a day compared to the next session depending on how tired I am. On the other hand I'm in the middle of really brutal training session which means that I'm stiff as a zombie on a good day. Luckily a doctor told me to back off I did recuperate at record speed according to the doctor.

Based on how you described the hopping x step I imagine that you are doing the hop but your arm is doing a bent elbow technique reach back. Versus straigth reach back. The way you reach back has got nothing to do with hopping or not. It's all a matter of timing if you're quick enough for throwing with both reach back methods with the x step or hopping x step. Or hopping shuffle step or shuffle steps. Get the picture? You can mix all of these steps with all of the reach back methods.

 

[JR]

2) The thumb pad pressure can be directed….does it matter which direction? By this I mean it can be pushed with the pivot of the disc (like snapping your fingers) or against the pivot.
3) Also, how much downward thumb pad pressure does everyone use and is it directed? Forward or backwards if the thumb nail is pointed straight up in front of you. In the past, I did little more than rest my thumb on top of the disc.
4) Is there a grip that is better suited for smaller hands? Especially in trying to get and keep the nose down. (I've tried the boneapane; I'm not a big fan)

The more you try to push forward and down with the pad of your thumb the higher the potential for keeping the nose of the disc down is. The trouble is that especially for those with small hands the more you try the more you need to strain your mucles which slows down arm speed and possible locks your wrist preventing wrist snap.

I've struggled with several driving grips and am not entirely satisfied with any of them. At least with wide rimmed drivers. See the articles for a picture of power grip 2. I use that with my Wraith but I don't reach to the flight plate with the fingertips. Among other grips. I can't curl my fingertips to the rims of wide rimmed drivers because of my small hands and short fingers. With this variation I get a bit more nose down angle. I need it because I think my injury tenses up my forearm muscles so that I lock my wrist eliminating wrist snap. Any nose down angle with enough muscle looseness is a huge improvement for me. For healthy people this isn't such a bad problem but the arm speed suffers if the muscles tense up. So this grip might be beneficial for throwing high with nose down. I manipulate the disc with my finger tips to achieve the highest amount of nose down angle. There are some degrees available here. It's really useful.

The downside of this grip is that it requires finger strength and that might also make the muscles more tense. So fingers or wrist down angle both can tense up the muscles. It's very personal how flexible you are and how loose you can keep each muscle group overall with different versions. Therefore everyone really needs to experiment on a field to see what kind of distances and accuracy one gets with each grip.

 

[mcoppel1]

JR. yeah I am in good shape.

I only was throwing lots of throws every day for the first 2 weeks, and many times I was throwing at 70% power or less, just to get the form and grip familiar. weeks 3-6 have had some rest days in them also.

I am using the bent elbow... can't believe I didn't post that also.

What I really love about the boepane grip is the lock down feeling I can get and feel right before the snap. It did take a while to get use to the grip though, and even longer to start off with little pressure on the disc then accelerate and get a strong grip at the end.

I am hoping through some more power and strength training to finally get 375 to 400' by end of Oct or Nov. I will probably start doing some taped training to post for better critiques also.

 

[JR]

JR. yeah I am in good shape.

I only was throwing lots of throws every day for the first 2 weeks, and many times I was throwing at 70% power or less, just to get the form and grip familiar. weeks 3-6 have had some rest days in them also.

I am using the bent elbow... can't believe I didn't post that also.

What I really love about the boepane grip is the lock down feeling I can get and feel right before the snap. It did take a while to get use to the grip though, and even longer to start off with little pressure on the disc then accelerate and get a strong grip at the end.

I am hoping through some more power and strength training to finally get 375 to 400' by end of Oct or Nov. I will probably start doing some taped training to post for better critiques also.

This sounds great but take into account that colder weather takes some power off of muscles and heavier clothing resists throwing motions so added purity of form and muscle strength, quickness and controlling might not yield visible results until it gets warmer again. But then you really should see improvements. So don't despair if you don't see improvements once the weather gets colder. BTW. the guy who invented this grip is called Dave Bonopane.

 

[daniebl2]

Furthur,
Did you get a chance to experiment with the thumb pad pressure/direction? I haven't had a chance yet?

Anyone else have any feed back on grip pressure points / direction.

 

[Timko]

Sorry, I was busy trying not to screw up in league. Drove all right, but putted lights out to beat one of the best players in KC (and maybe the highest rated). Didn't win the open division, but got his tag!

I'll try and get to it this weekend. I'll be off the course for a few days, but maybe Sunday.

 

[gretagun]

I have been messing around with my thumb and pressure points a bit, and for me I find that keeping my thumb about half way over the rim and flight plate to work the best. I keep more of my thumb over the flight plate and it kind of push's down into the flight plate and against the rim, if that makes any sense. I feel I can get a tighter grip, especially between my thumb and index finger.

 

[radsnowsurfer]

I had been considering asking this in another thread but because the question of grip styles came up I figure I'll ask it here, I've been using a two fingered power grip for some time know and I've only seen one other person with a similar grip to mine, and he had a significantly larger hand then mine, my fingers are rather small. most people I know throw with a 3 fingered or full 4 fingered grip, is the two fingered grip going to cause distance problems doon the line, it works pretty well for me know, although I feel like I lose a touch of control on wet days, right know I'm throwing 330-350. :?:

 

[dgdave]

the biggest thing with grip is comfort, nose angle, and all 4 fingers under the rim. I personally use climo's fork grip. only my index and pinky fingers are actually touch the rim while the 2 middle fingers are applying pressure. this grip helped me get the nose down which improves every thing.

 

[JR]

I had been considering asking this in another thread but because the question of grip styles came up I figure I'll ask it here, I've been using a two fingered power grip for some time know and I've only seen one other person with a similar grip to mine, and he had a significantly larger hand then mine, my fingers are rather small. most people I know throw with a 3 fingered or full 4 fingered grip, is the two fingered grip going to cause distance problems doon the line, it works pretty well for me know, although I feel like I lose a touch of control on wet days, right know I'm throwing 330-350. :?:

I've used it before but honestly don't know how it would compare in distance and accuracy now. I was more accurate with it but once I harnessed more power from my legs and focused my power later in the throw I began to get slippages if I didn't squeeze like with death grip. Usually the extra hard grip wasn't necessary but unless I did that I got a few early slippages.

The thing that turned me off of this grip was getting bloody broken callouses on the right side of the tip of my middle finger. The good thing about the two finger power grip for me was looser forearm muscles than with any previous grip allowing for more nose down until the the overcompensation with the death grip to prevent slippages.

Thanks to the guys here I got more info about nose down and noticed that I needed to shift my weight more forward than I used to. So I can't compare the grips now because I haven't tried the two finger grip with the improvements I got this summer.

It'd be interesting to try it a couple of times only per day to save my skin and to see if I'd get more nose down with looser muscles to be able to let my wrist move and throw higher with nose down. A feat I've never accomplished :-( Preventing good practice for snapping my wrist and robbing me of accuracy and distance and some flight lines. Aargh! The times when reality slaps you into face and reminds me of the fact that there doen't exist a division for handicapped people and I'm !"#¤%& one.

 

[JR]

the biggest thing with grip is comfort, nose angle, and all 4 fingers under the rim. I personally use climo's fork grip. only my index and pinky fingers are actually touch the rim while the 2 middle fingers are applying pressure. this grip helped me get the nose down which improves every thing.

I'd interpret comfort with the ease and consistency of the grip and the ability to keep muscles loose enough for proper power and speed generation at correct times during the throw. Do you agree?

I'm not 100 % sure of the superiority of the 4 finger version in all cases. With less power and worse form I got more distance and accuracy out of the 2 finger version. The articles on grip said that the grip that allows for the largest range of motion and the loosest muscles is the best grip. For me the two finger grip was better. That indicates that I had enough grip strength with two finger grip for my power and form back then. I don't know if it is humanly possible for top level pros to throw at full power with two finger grip.

My first trieswith the fork grip were horrible. I just couldn't get clean releases and the pinky stuck no matter how loose I tried to keep the pinky and stacked fingers. It didn't help enough to slide down the pinky the the corner of the rim and wing. Maybe with time I could master this. More nose down is what I need and with completely loose muscles so it is tempting to try it again. On the other hand I don't remember getting any more nose down nor looser muscles this way. Any hints?

 

[dgdave]

I got the notion of all 4 fingers under the rim when I went to some Scott Stokely demos about 7 or 8 years ago. I figured he knew what he was talking about since he can throw 700 ft distand and about 550-600 ft golf drives. I've seen him. I think the fingers should just be off the rim for distance. put them under. fingers on the rim slow the disc down from the get go.

As for the fork grip, it helped me get the nose down by changing the orientation of the disc in my hand. I've got big hands and to get a comfortable power grip, which I used for about 6 years, the nose would be up 90% of the time. with the fork grip, it put the disc in the crease of my palm and left the nose down when I wrapped my fingers under the rim.

At first, it was uncomfortable and my forarm was very tight. I lost about 80-100 feet of D, but the nose was down consistantly and notice more accuracy. I've used this grip for about 5 or 6 monthes. I have gotten all my D back plus a little extra. My forearm has loosened from the stretching and now when I do get a 400-420 ft shot off its a tighter line and more accurate than before.

 

[JR]

Four fingers under the rim sounds cool if the disc doesn't slip out and the required muscle tension isn't too bad. Squeezing the disc at this highest part may actually allow for more strenght out of the muscles because the muscles are closer to the center of the moving range position. I'll have to check this out. I held a disc in my hand nad it seems that the corner of the rim and wing in a Teerex is so sharp that it might be painful to grip hard and more so during the throw. Especially if the disc slips.

Gripping under the corner with the fork grip seems to allow for quite nice a nose down angle. I'll have to see if I can throw with this grip. The pinky shouldn't stick with this grip Thanks for the idea. Way cool even if I couldn't get it to work Thumbs up. I've gotta try this with Wizards as well

My trouble is not a lack of limberness. I'm too limer for my own health and it has contributed to my being injured. I've got nerve damage from injuries that tenses up my muscles. So different strokes for different folks even though the end result might be the same. If the muscles are strained for any reason you're out of luck.

I'm not surprised at all that you've gained accuracy and tightened the flight lines by getting the nose down. That's my expectation and experience from limited success with getting the nose down. Tres cool in tunnels like the courses around here. So extremely useful. Thanks dgdave!

 

[dgdave]

You should be good with this grip on your wizards too. I find this is the most comfortable grip for my mids and putters for my hands, big hands and big fingers, but not hot dog fingers just large size.

when I used to power grip, the disc always felt slightly loos in the hand, especially near my pinky and ring finger. I think this caused plenty of problems. the fork keppes the disc locked into place and more of my hand on the disc which seems to give me more contol as long as I keep my wrist locked down.

on youtube there is a video of climo explaining this grip. its a clinic with him and hosfeld. look for the ultimate disc golf show and find the clinics. they are all good. they have grip, drive, approach, upshot, putting videos. they also have an awesome one of climo and hosfeld freestyling which is flippin sweet!

 

[JR]

You should be good with this grip on your wizards too. I find this is the most comfortable grip for my mids and putters for my hands, big hands and big fingers, but not hot dog fingers just large size.

when I used to power grip, the disc always felt slightly loos in the hand, especially near my pinky and ring finger. I think this caused plenty of problems. the fork keppes the disc locked into place and more of my hand on the disc which seems to give me more contol as long as I keep my wrist locked down.

on youtube there is a video of climo explaining this grip. its a clinic with him and hosfeld. look for the ultimate disc golf show and find the clinics. they are all good. they have grip, drive, approach, upshot, putting videos. they also have an awesome one of climo and hosfeld freestyling which is flippin sweet!

We are in the opposie end in hand sizes. It seems that I just can't fork grip Wizards regardless of the finger position. But trying to fan grip I seemed to find a comfortable version of the fan grip with the pinky and index finger on the wing of the disc. I've had no luck with regular fan grip either. I get good gripping strength with little muscle tension when I put my index finger under the thumb pad. I curl my pinky to the bottom of my palm and have the outermost joint under the wing. To me it seems that keeping the middle finger straight like it is in handshaking position yields the loosest muscle tension for me. I need to curl my ring finger back to keep the Wizard parallel to the ground and get a sturdier grip.

I don't actually have a lot of contact with the disc and my palm. The only part of my hand that touches the disc slightly is in the immediate vicinity of the midway point of the base of the index and middle fingers.

This grip allows for the most nose down/loosest muscles with the Wizards I've ever had. An added bonus is very loose resistance free(compared to all previous grips) back to front motion range that is the largest I've ever had. If there are problems with clean releases and possibly lost distance due to the index finger being outside the rim and the ring and middle fingers slipping cleanly off the disc this grip might not get into use with Wizard drives but it will be tested and probably adopted for approaches. I've tried this with miniscule power inside my home and it works beautifully for approaches. I haven't got enough practice yet to determine the feasibility of this grip for putting. I don't yet see any obstacles.

Thanks again dgdave for being a catalyst and an initiating spark for my thinking.

 

[dgdave]

that's why I post. I might make sense to someone out there