Has Dynamic Discs peaked?

[ejvogie]

Yeah, I think Discraft might disagree with that assertion. I think Paul's salary is more than paying for itself.

DD does not have a Paul. Not even close. It was a solid business decision FOR DD, your manufacturer's mileage may vary.

 

[Casey 1988]

DD does not have a Paul. Not even close. It was a solid business decision FOR DD, your manufacturer's mileage may vary.

Do rember that Paul McBeth and Paul Ulibari are on Team Discraft. The Discraft company was one of the first outside of Wham-O to take disc competition in general serious as a company. Yeah Discraft has been a company longer then Innova making old non flight ring Ultrastar and the Prostyler and Skystyler as freestyle discs in the mid 1970's that worked fairly well as pre beveled edge disc golf disc bring the disc were heavier then the normal disc stuff that Wham-O was making. Just that Discraft saw a market for Disc Golf in the 1980's they made discs specifically for that sport.

 

[perklc]

Do rember that Paul McBeth and Paul Ulibari are on Team Discraft.

When you hear hoofbeats...

 

[Casey 1988]

When you hear hoofbeats...

Now that Both Paul's are healthy yes.

 

[biscoe]

Yeah, I think Discraft might disagree with that assertion. I think Paul's salary is more than paying for itself.

...and likely the entirety of the rest of their team.

 

[jenb]

I recall when we first started playing disc golf, we purchased starter sets at a sporting goods store. At that time, I think there was only 1 starter set available, but it had graphics advertising the world champs of the day. It was years before we became aware of local tournaments and started playing those, but we had bought some discs already that were put out by other manufacturers. It is difficult for me to know how much our purchasing decisions were driven by sponsorship of pros, but I think it would be a factor for most people today. Still, I think everyone wants to try everything eventually.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

I've just gotten into dyeing Discs. Trilogy's premium plastic (Gold Line, Fuzion, etc.) is AWESOME for dyes.

 

[Gmtata01]

Peaked

Yes they have peaked. Losing a 5X Champ and Zach A who won and worlds says enough. They were behind on making contracts many other methods to help support players...many more have left Grady, Dustin K, and Coda H to name a few of their bigger names. They currently have Nikko, Eric O, and Zach M, and Paige S. Paige is a top 5 female with Kristen T, but their MPO side is at best maybe in the top 20-30 range.

 

[JC17393]

Yes they have peaked. Losing a 5X Champ and Zach A who won and worlds says enough. They were behind on making contracts many other methods to help support players...many more have left Grady, Dustin K, and Coda H to name a few of their bigger names. They currently have Nikko, Eric O, and Zach M, and Paige S. Paige is a top 5 female with Kristen T, but their MPO side is at best maybe in the top 20-30 range.

First, you're conflating three separate teams. Grady Shue was Latitude, not DD. Coda and Nikko were/are on Westside, not DD.

Second, you are forgetting Chris Clemons.

Third, I'm not sure how far behind they really were/are contract-wise. McBeth's deal broke all sorts of molds and it was only a year ago. DD is hardly the only company that until recently relied on handshake deals rather than legal documents. The landscape is changing quickly, and frankly, I think we might be seeing a bit of a bubble in the sponsorship realm. Latitude last year and DD this year might be setting themselves up to avoid getting burned if/when it bursts. I really think people are over-estimating the kind of money these companies generate and/or have laying around to pay players. Discraft (and Innova) are probably the exceptions rather than the rule in the manufacturing game. The game is growing, but that doesn't mean companies should be outspending that growth.

 

[Casey 1988]

...and likely the entirety of the rest of their team.

Well Paige Pierce might help pay for the team too. A few former players that liked her playing style might copy what she does now.

Oh and MJ saving the Comet from a possible demise in the 2010's when he got back on a hot streak for a few NT or PT tournaments.

 

[wolfhaley]

So Coda signed with Discraft. He's now their, what, 17th best player. If anyone thinks that this is sustainable, you're wrong. While these guys lower down for Discraft may be benefiting now, you think a few won't be disenchanted with their situation halfway through the season or so? Especially after signing PP. You think Earhart, Hammes, Hannum etc. are going to break the bank being stuck behind PMcB and now PP? Time will tell I guess :doh:

 

[Three Putt]

Well Paige Pierce might help pay for the team too. A few former players that liked her playing style might copy what she does now.

Oh and MJ saving the Comet from a possible demise in the 2010's when he got back on a hot streak for a few NT or PT tournaments.

Hey, I like MJ and all but the Comet wasn't anywhere close to a possible demise anytime in the 2010's. MJ makes for a great Comet spokesperson, but that disc has sold well in Z since it came into full production in '09.

 

[Orioles_Lefty]

So Coda signed with Discraft. He's now their, what, 17th best player. If anyone thinks that this is sustainable, you're wrong. While these guys lower down for Discraft may be benefiting now, you think a few won't be disenchanted with their situation halfway through the season or so? Especially after signing PP. You think Earhart, Hammes, Hannum etc. are going to break the bank being stuck behind PMcB and now PP? Time will tell I guess :doh:

Until the terms of player contracts are known, we'll never know. Is being 17th on Discraft or Innova worse than being 4th on Westside? I'm not saying he was 4th; just eyeballing a comparison.

 

[Three Putt]

So Coda signed with Discraft. He's now their, what, 17th best player. If anyone thinks that this is sustainable, you're wrong. While these guys lower down for Discraft may be benefiting now, you think a few won't be disenchanted with their situation halfway through the season or so? Especially after signing PP. You think Earhart, Hammes, Hannum etc. are going to break the bank being stuck behind PMcB and now PP? Time will tell I guess :doh:

Until the terms of player contracts are known, we'll never know. Is being 17th on Discraft or Innova worse than being 4th on Westside? I'm not saying he was 4th; just eyeballing a comparison.

Unless some other company comes in a pushes up compensation for the lower-tier guys I would think the bigger thing would be Discraft deciding they overextended with too large of a team and dropping a bunch of these guys when the deals expire down to a more manageable team size. Then it becomes the question of if anyone would be willing to pick them up, or if you would just see a reduction in the number of sponsored players.

 

[Orioles_Lefty]

Unless some other company comes in a pushes up compensation for the lower-tier guys I would think the bigger thing would be Discraft deciding they overextended with too large of a team and dropping a bunch of these guys when the deals expire down to a more manageable team size. Then it becomes the question of if anyone would be willing to pick them up, or if you would just see a reduction in the number of sponsored players.

The question of how large a number of players can be sponsored at a "touring" level remains to be seen, especially given the possibility of a manufacturer (say, DD) emphasizing other approaches other than pro sponsorship as the central, default approach for catching eyeballs.

That pro golfers are individual contractors likely doesn't help those players on the sponsorship fringe. Will we seeing a shrinking of sponsorship from what appeared to be a focus on breadth (quantity of players) to depth (quality of players)?

 

[Casey 1988]

Unless some other company comes in a pushes up compensation for the lower-tier guys I would think the bigger thing would be Discraft deciding they overextended with too large of a team and dropping a bunch of these guys when the deals expire down to a more manageable team size. Then it becomes the question of if anyone would be willing to pick them up, or if you would just see a reduction in the number of sponsored players.

Then See some players going Back to the Swedish made trilogy of disc, but more then likely not Dynamic Disc, possibly Westside Disc or Latitude 64.

 

[Monkeypaws]

Weren't folks saying how Discraft had peaked, was spinning the bowl, etc. just over a year or two ago? Then they weren't.

I said it before and will say it again, almost all the folks I throw with couldn't give a rat's ass about pro disc golf or who sponsors who.

This community is made up of DG nerds(like myself) who pay close attention to such matters. Perceived decline here must be taken with a large grain of salt in the ocean of people who dabble in disc golf.

If these boards were exemplary of the overall DG community, then MVP and Axiom would be #1.

 

[Ryan C]

DD does not have a Paul. Not even close. It was a solid business decision FOR DD, your manufacturer's mileage may vary.

But that isn't what you said. You think DD doesn't want top level pros throwing and promoting their discs? Obviously they do. There must be another reason they aren't sponsoring any big names anymore.

I always hear the same argument that the number of competitive players is relatively small compared to the number or rec and casual players. Even if we assume that is true in disc golf, which I'm not sure it is, I still think competitive players are the ones constantly plunking down dollars for multiples of new discs the moment they are released.

Casual players? Well, most of them are still throwing the same handful of discs they threw a couple years ago. Sure, definitely not all. Most.

Paul McBeth has been profitable for both of his manufacturers. He's two for two. You think DD doesn't want a piece of that? They just don't have the cash to pay. Literally the only explanation. There is no precedent that says sponsoring players and/or tourneys has little to no ROI, as you said.

DD is probably not seeing the profit they were a couple of years ago, and they are probably doing some experimenting to see how big a hit they will take by not sponsoring a competitive player anymore. Maybe they are betting their core fan base will carry them through a season or two while they restructure a little bit and tighten up their lineup.

One thing you can't say is that sponsoring big name players has no return on investment.

 

[Orioles_Lefty]

One thing you can't say is that sponsoring big name players has no return on investment.

The question is what defines big and the cost of competing to secure contracts with the big players.

 

[Keller]

Maybe DD is going to follow Discrafts model; do nothing much for a few years, save up some money any then buy a few pros.