Help turn me into a real live disc golfer

[Rastnav]

I'm relatively new to the sport (you can see this thread if you need more background). I'm on the older, fatter, side to be starting, I suppose, but I'd still like to get some approximation of good form.

Currently I throw my putters around 180'-200', mid-ranges between 200'-220', fairway drivers 220'-240', although I somehow blind-squirreled into a 320' and 280' GStar Leopard shots earlier this week. All distances very approximate (and variable).

Here are some throws:

Many standstill mid-range shots from the side: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=amDVq7UDnOw
Many standstill mid-range shots from behind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3yAkV0aZMAw
Slow mo X-Step side: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PXoCvQIphrA
Slow mo X-Step behind: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q7Ch4nHtGEI

Standstill things I think I see that are bad:
- The "hugging myself" thing. I don't really understand how to get myself to stop it.
- The disc goes above my elbow on the reachback and I have a sort of "scoop" action. Get's a lot worse when I X-step.
- My right foot ends up pointed toward the target, even when I think I've gotten the heel down pointed toward the target.
- I think my spine angle/center of gravity is probably wrong. Hence throwing an anhyzer on most of these.

X-Step:
- Hugging, scooping, right foot pointed towards target - same as standstill
- I think my spine angle is probably better, although I'm sure not great.
- My right foot ends up not even in-line with my back foot, but "open" to the target, instead of closed. No clue how I am managing to do that.
- Follow through is very low, which I think is doing all sorts of bad and creating OAT (or GRITs or some other breakfast cereal.) Not sure why. When I try and correct that, I end with a weak spike hyzer.
- I know I've seen other people critiqued for "horse stance", which it looks like I am doing, but I'm not exactly clear on what I should be aiming for and how to get there.


So, I welcome feedback on what I'm doing wrong, what I should try and fix first and how, and also whether my self-critique is useful/correct.

Many thanks in advance and someday maybe I'll turn into Pinochio.

 

[sidewinder22]

Get into more forward tilted athletic position and swing your shoulder in a pendulum, make your arm swing very heavy and extended. Your front shoulder is always above your rear shoulder, so there is no pendulum action. You are trying to pull/retract your arm down and into your body instead of it being deployed up and out away like ball on string or olympic hammer throw. It's going to feel very different and weird at first.

https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136487

 

[Rastnav]

Get into more forward tilted athletic position ... Your front shoulder is always above your rear shoulder, so there is no pendulum action.

I also play ball golf, and those two things together make me think about stance and shoulder turn in a ball golf swing. Is that a helpful thought?

I'm also having a hard time figuring out how to combine these thoughts and the idea that I'm not supposed to swing the disc in an arc, but pull it on a straight line. Hopefully getting out and doing the drills will somehow make it click.

Thanks for all the advice.

 

[sidewinder22]

Absolutely, it's a one handed golf swing.

Address & Finish Position:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134167

Straight and flat are illusions:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=134415

One-Piece Takeaway:
https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=133733

 

[Rastnav]

Well, lots of work, not sure how much I have to show for it. I think I am getting a better spine angle, right shoulder working more under the left, not sure about anything else.

From the side, beginning of throwing session:
https://youtu.be/FD2BGND1skY?t=9

From behind, end of throwing session (more tired and more warm):
https://youtu.be/5ODAPGjM-DM?t=15

 

[sidewinder22]

I would keep working from "standstill", but shifting between your feet like a baseball batter. You open way up going into the plant and collapse your front knee and arm against your chest. Need to turn everything further back going into plant.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5xfv9jPqZs
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mvGudQYfjD8#t=63s
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=agKwNo_5K5c
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sQMV3oHs6Ug

 

[Rastnav]

When you say "standstill" do you mean that literally? I ask because midway through that first video you turn and then step so your weight goes forward to load your front leg. Getting that feeling of loading the front leg is something I'm struggling with from standstill.

 

[Rastnav]

When you say "standstill" do you mean that literally? I ask because midway through that first video you turn and then step so your weight goes forward to load your front leg. Getting that feeling of loading the front leg is something I'm struggling with from standstill.

Maybe this is the point of the doorframe drill though? Getting me to be able to load the weight correctly from a standstill?

I also really wonder about whether I'm supposed to be working with a "closed" foot/hip position. You mention it in the first video, but all of the drills have your feet on a parallel line to the intended flight,.

 

[sidewinder22]

When you say "standstill" do you mean that literally? I ask because midway through that first video you turn and then step so your weight goes forward to load your front leg. Getting that feeling of loading the front leg is something I'm struggling with from standstill.

Not literally, just no x-step. Should be shifting back and forth between feet constantly, like a baseball batter and can take a small step.

 

[sidewinder22]

Maybe this is the point of the doorframe drill though? Getting me to be able to load the weight correctly from a standstill?

I also really wonder about whether I'm supposed to be working with a "closed" foot/hip position. You mention it in the first video, but all of the drills have your feet on a parallel line to the intended flight,.

Right, should be moving both feet in door frame drill to feel out how to leverage your weight against the door frame.

Stance should be dynamic not static. Moving feet around to find leverage. It will vary some on different types of shots and amount of power and how much you bend legs.

 

[Rastnav]

Alright, got me some work to do. I'll try not to "panic".

 

[Rastnav]

So, did I do better? My butt is sore enough (in a good way) to feel like I did something different. I was really trying to rotate my hips and my shoulders back and then "sink" into my right hip, but what it felt like and what it looks like on camera are different. I also decided to stop trying to step into it and just try and change my hip level from a heel raised position. Ugh.

From the side starting with, one of my better results:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lgYd-x2-mg4

If you watch through to the next one after that, one thing I am wondering about is simply how high up my torso I am pulling through. Can I solve the "dip" problem by concentrating on making my pull through more "out" and "up"? Or is that going to end up failing to get the "right shoulder under" that I have been concentrating on?

From behind, I think my biggest issue in these is that my weight isn't shifting towards the target enough, and is instead going "sideways" towards my butt?

https://youtu.be/etxOW9aRrow?t=53

ETA:
Another question I have is if, in a perfect world, I would be throwing the exact same disc each time? Would it help if all the discs I was using to try and improve my form were the same mold, weight and plastic?

 

[Rastnav]

Comparing today (green shirt) to yesterday (hoodie), I see that my stance is much more balanced, my right foot is far more closed, my hips haven't opened up yet, my back shoulder hasn't opened yet, the disc is flatter telling me I haven't "scooped" it.

I guess I'd like my hand to be further to the outside of the disc to give me leverage for the snap?
I think the disc is still too tight to my body? Should I be pulling it through higher on my chest and more "outside"? Is that my shoulders being still too open?
The disc is still pointing a little bit at the ground, meaning I am scooping at least a little?
What;s up with my right shoulder? Is that just too much tension?

 

[sidewinder22]

You are trying to throw too hard and spinning out. Need to start more relaxed and neutral and slow.

Note how both your feet spin counterclockwise and your rear foot is rolled over to outside edge in backswing. Your front heel should get pulled away from target from backswing and pressure kept more on inside edge of rear foot.

Front Heel: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q5xfv9jPqZs#t=4m16s

Rear Foot Death Move: https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=7&v=38gp-BWlhnM&t=9m

Walk this way instead of trying to spin your hips: https://www.dgcoursereview.com/forums/showthread.php?t=136487

 

[sidewinder22]

ETA:
Another question I have is if, in a perfect world, I would be throwing the exact same disc each time? Would it help if all the discs I was using to try and improve my form were the same mold, weight and plastic?

Too much thinking.

Yes. When I really started learning I only throw a stack of 10 Banger GT putters for like a month straight. Then added some stacks of Comets/Rocs and Teebirds. Then some high speed drivers later.

 

[sidewinder22]

Comparing today (green shirt) to yesterday (hoodie), I see that my stance is much more balanced, my right foot is far more closed, my hips haven't opened up yet, my back shoulder hasn't opened yet, the disc is flatter telling me I haven't "scooped" it.

I guess I'd like my hand to be further to the outside of the disc to give me leverage for the snap?
I think the disc is still too tight to my body? Should I be pulling it through higher on my chest and more "outside"? Is that my shoulders being still too open?
The disc is still pointing a little bit at the ground, meaning I am scooping at least a little?
What;s up with my right shoulder? Is that just too much tension?

Your elbow is too close your body, pulling your elbow in, instead of elbow being pulled out taut like hammer throw and simply bending elbow to swing disc close to center chest and back out away.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQYGzTlVetQ&t=7m

 

[Rastnav]

Mmmm, I guess I need to try to throw with like 50% power or something like that. That has ending up feeling very frustrating when I have tried it. Everything just sorta falls apart. Back to the drawing board.

As to my weight on the outside of my foot, that's partially just how my body is put together. I am one of the rare actual supinators out there. But I will work on it.

Many thanks. Not sure why you provide so much great feedback, but I really appreciate it.

 

[sidewinder22]

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LP_eaYFeTXc#t=39s

 

[Rastnav]

More work today. I managed to do something different, whether or not it is better. Not spinning the hips anymore, and thought I was being better about how far my weight transferred, but I don't think I was successful. Tried to throw not as hard, not sure whether I was actually better.

I think my feet may be too staggered, and when trying not to spin my hips, I lost that downward weight shift.

But I do think I managed to get the disc out away from my body more?



Side:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XXCKTIeDvgs

Behind:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aUEEM_kX68Q

Also, please let me know if I am posting too often?

 

[BillFleming]

First off - do you play disc golf? Then you are a 'real live disc golfer'.

Now, for the important part - you want to improve.

Figure out where you feel you need to improve and don't try to 'fix/improve' everything at once.

I'm a predominant forehand player, but I haven't been happy with my throws. So, I started working on changing/adjusting my grip, throw, steps, etc and getting nowhere. So I stepped back and started again. I worked on my grip. Threw the same disc over and over again trying different grips and not changing anything else. Found the grip that worked best for me. Next I worked on my back-swing. Reaching back far, reaching up behind me, different things I've see other forehand throwers do. Found what worked consistently for me. Now I have my grip and 'reach back'; I next worked on the throw. Was happy with that. Moved onto the walk-up, vice standstill. Tried looking at the target the whole time, tried looking at the target to start - looking down during the swing-then looking back at the target at the moment of wrist snap. Found what worked best and now I had the combination that worked the best for me. Went from throwing my Innova Sidewinder about 200ish, to 250ish and a huge gain in accuracy. I made my first CTP and took 11 strokes/throws off my round.

So, fix one thing at a time and there may be a point where you have to re-fix something. Maybe from a standstill your reach back on a backhand is far back, but on a walk/run-up you are having issues...maybe you have to go back and shorten your reach back.

But however you work on improving/fixing your throws....you ARE a 'real live disc golfer'.