How Can We Minimize 'Flukey Rollaways'?

[Norcal]

Flukey rollaways are the worst part of disc golf. Random outcomes don't jibe with the notion that disc golf is a game of skill. How can we minimize flukey rollaways without compromising challenge?

I am mostly concerned with rollaways that occur around the basket. Consider this scenario: Player A comes up an inch low on his putt, hits the side of the basket, catches an edge, and rolls down and off the sloped green and behind a stand of trees. Player A is now looking at a 3-putt. Meanwhile Player B airballs his putt and lands next to the basket for a tap-in. In this scenario, Player A is severely punished for making a better putt than Player B- luck is the determinative factor, not skill.

Putting at baskets that are on or near slopes adds challenge and creativity to the game, but it injects an element of randomness. I'd like to see small barriers erected strategically around sloped greens to knock down rollaways and minimize their punishing effect.

Making greens more uniform, i.e. removing fallen branches and large tufts of weeds, covering exposed roots and correcting irregularities in the landing area can also minimize flukey rollaways.

Any other ideas?

I hear a lot of people say "rollaways are part of the game". They certainly are, but they shouldn't be if you believe disc golf should be a game of skill rather than chance.

 

[46YearOldSlinger]

Pretty tough to have these roll away: https://infinitediscs.com/DGA-Blowfly-I

 

[Cgkdisc]

I've recommended (among our DGCD course designers) placing a log or some sort of barrier on slopes about 20 ft below the basket to moderately defend against big rollaways. It's a judgment call but it seems like that distance is about right where the player has a good chance to make their next putt but it's not a gimme. We've even had a kick-board installed as the OB line on the edge of a drop-off at the revamped Fairfield course on Gold 15. The pin is on flat ground with the OB behind it on the approach. The 8" high board will stop hot upshot sliders and rollaways.

 

[jcassidy1990]

Flukey rollaways are the worst part of disc golf. Random outcomes don't jibe with the notion that disc golf is a game of skill. How can we minimize flukey rollaways without compromising challenge?

I am mostly concerned with rollaways that occur around the basket. Consider this scenario: Player A comes up an inch low on his putt, hits the side of the basket, catches an edge, and rolls down and off the sloped green and behind a stand of trees. Player A is now looking at a 3-putt. Meanwhile Player B airballs his putt and lands next to the basket for a tap-in. In this scenario, Player A is severely punished for making a better putt than Player B- luck is the determinative factor, not skill.

Putting at baskets that are on or near slopes adds challenge and creativity to the game, but it injects an element of randomness. I'd like to see small barriers erected strategically around sloped greens to knock down rollaways and minimize their punishing effect.

Making greens more uniform, i.e. removing fallen branches and large tufts of weeds, covering exposed roots and correcting irregularities in the landing area can also minimize flukey rollaways.

Any other ideas?

I hear a lot of people say "rollaways are part of the game". They certainly are, but they shouldn't be if you believe disc golf should be a game of skill rather than chance.

I can see the frustration and I've experienced it myself in competitive rounds of golf. That said, I just believe that this is an aspect of our game that makes it even more fantastic. Disc Golf is very unique that the rounds are not only you vs. the competition...but also you vs. the course.

I am an avid baseball fan as well and I've seen uneven infield cuts cause nasty hops and larger debris causing foul balls to inexplicably roll back into play. These things happen in all sports. I don't think that these random goofs harm the legitimacy of our sport.


In the end, I can honestly say that I don't care if DG "makes it big". I like being that crazy guy who is obsessed with disc golf and then converting the naysayers when I bring them out for a round. To me, DG is the best kept secret in the active hobby world and I just kinda...selfishly...want to remain that way.

 

[Noill]

I don't know if I agree with you OP... there is a risk/reward at those pins near slopes. Some ppl do carry super soft putters for that reason.

I hate when it happens to me but still... I don't want to see rollaway catches around pins that are on slopes

 

[Steve West]

Id say Player B made the better putt. B is going to have a lower score, that makes it a better putt. If you don't want roll-aways, don't give the disc a chance to bonk off the tray. Sometimes the best throw is to not go for it. The more severe the roll-away possibility, the more true this is.

That being said, features that limit the effect of roll-aways can be a big improvement in the right situations. The choice of whether to use them is one of the many things that are acceptable, and add to the variety of design philosophies.

 

[WhiteyBear]

Five inch spikes around the basket...that'll fix you right up.

 

[Scared_Discless]

Flukey rollaways are the worst part of disc golf. Random outcomes don't jibe with the notion that disc golf is a game of skill. How can we minimize flukey rollaways without compromising challenge?

I am mostly concerned with rollaways that occur around the basket. Consider this scenario: Player A comes up an inch low on his putt, hits the side of the basket, catches an edge, and rolls down and off the sloped green and behind a stand of trees. Player A is now looking at a 3-putt. Meanwhile Player B airballs his putt and lands next to the basket for a tap-in. In this scenario, Player A is severely punished for making a better putt than Player B- luck is the determinative factor, not skill.

Putting at baskets that are on or near slopes adds challenge and creativity to the game, but it injects an element of randomness. I'd like to see small barriers erected strategically around sloped greens to knock down rollaways and minimize their punishing effect.

Making greens more uniform, i.e. removing fallen branches and large tufts of weeds, covering exposed roots and correcting irregularities in the landing area can also minimize flukey rollaways.

Any other ideas?

I hear a lot of people say "rollaways are part of the game". They certainly are, but they shouldn't be if you believe disc golf should be a game of skill rather than chance.

Make the putt and you have zero chance of a roll away. It doesn't take any skill to putt into the cage. :|

 

[JC17393]

Id say Player B made the better putt. B is going to have a lower score, that makes it a better putt. If you don't want roll-aways, don't give the disc a chance to bonk off the tray. Sometimes the best throw is to not go for it. The more severe the roll-away possibility, the more true this is.

That being said, features that limit the effect of roll-aways can be a big improvement in the right situations. The choice of whether to use them is one of the many things that are acceptable, and add to the variety of design philosophies.

I agree with Steve...just because a throw hits the basket doesn't mean it's the better of two shots. They both missed, but one missed in a more advantageous place than the other.

The better analogy if we want to talk about "flukey" rollaways would be two putts that each bonk off the tray, with one falling and coming to rest flat on the slope and the other catching edge and rolling down the hill.

But is that "fluke" occurrence any different, really, than a pair of errant tee or fairway shots that clip the same tree where one shot caroms back into the middle of the fairway while the other caroms off the fairway and deeper into the schule? In either case, it was a poor shot that missed the fairway and the thrower's intended line, but one was graced with good luck and one was cursed by bad luck.

There are some things one could consider "flukey" that just can't be designed out of a course no matter what you do.

 

[1978]

Flukey rollaways are the worst part of disc golf. Random outcomes don't jibe with the notion that disc golf is a game of skill. How can we minimize flukey rollaways without compromising challenge?

I am mostly concerned with rollaways that occur around the basket. Consider this scenario: Player A comes up an inch low on his putt, hits the side of the basket, catches an edge, and rolls down and off the sloped green and behind a stand of trees. Player A is now looking at a 3-putt. Meanwhile Player B airballs his putt and lands next to the basket for a tap-in. In this scenario, Player A is severely punished for making a better putt than Player B- luck is the determinative factor, not skill.

Putting at baskets that are on or near slopes adds challenge and creativity to the game, but it injects an element of randomness. I'd like to see small barriers erected strategically around sloped greens to knock down rollaways and minimize their punishing effect.

Making greens more uniform, i.e. removing fallen branches and large tufts of weeds, covering exposed roots and correcting irregularities in the landing area can also minimize flukey rollaways.

Any other ideas?

I hear a lot of people say "rollaways are part of the game". They certainly are, but they shouldn't be if you believe disc golf should be a game of skill rather than chance.

All side hill greens should at least have a small 5-10' ring of flat area around the basket. 1 it stops erosion, 1 gives you somewhere to land if you have a spit or chain out.

 

[Norcal]

I agree with Steve...just because a throw hits the basket doesn't mean it's the better of two shots. They both missed, but one missed in a more advantageous place than the other.

I believe that 'punishment should fit the crime'. That tenet is at the core of games of skill. For example, in traditional golf a drive that is slightly off-line may land in the first cut, rather than the fairway, making for a slightly more difficult second shot. A drive that is further off-line may land in the rough, a bunker, or may be obstructed by trees, making for a significantly more difficult second shot. In the scenario I presented both players were trying to make their putt, but Player B, whose putt was way off-line, is punished much less severely than Player A, whose putt was only slightly off-target. Luck is the determinative factor, not skill.

 

[1978]

I don't know if I agree with you OP... there is a risk/reward at those pins near slopes. Some ppl do carry super soft putters for that reason.

I hate when it happens to me but still... I don't want to see rollaway catches around pins that are on slopes

Not catches, I agree...but there should be some flat area which again serves 2 purposes, erosion control and a place for a disc to rest. If you roll off that, oh well.

 

[sisyphus]

Pretty tough to have these roll away: https://infinitediscs.com/DGA-Blowfly-I

Flukey putts happen to those too, though maybe not as often. I once had a 75 foot rollaway after hitting the cage on a 35 footer at Mt Airy, Hole 17, using a Blowfly. My jaw dropped in astonishment, of course (and I traded away the disc ), but stuff happens, you know?

 

[DavidSauls]

I'm less bothered by those rollaways. I come from sports where there a lot of "playing the odds" decisions.

So on those baskets, you can lay up, with an almost-certain chance of finishing the hole in 2 throws from where you are (unless you screw up the layup). Or you can putt with, depending on the hole, a certain percentage chance of gaining a stroke on the guy who laid up, a certain percentage of scoring the same as the guy who laid up, and a certain percentage of a rolloway and losing a stroke. You weigh those odds and your nerves, and make your decision.

On any given hole the results may be random, but over time they work out.

I'm much more bothered by random results on good shots (trees in the middle of the fairway, far enough away that you can't really aim to miss them), than random results on bad shots (missed putts, in this case).

 

[JC17393]

I believe that 'punishment should fit the crime'. That tenet is at the core of games of skill. For example, in traditional golf a drive that is slightly off-line may land in the first cut, rather than the fairway, making for a slightly more difficult second shot. A drive that is further off-line may land in the rough, a bunker, or may be obstructed by trees, making for a significantly more difficult second shot. In the scenario I presented both players were trying to make their putt, but Player B, whose putt was way off-line, is punished much less severely than Player A, whose putt was only slightly off-target. Luck is the determinative factor, not skill.

Determining which was "more off-line" is more than a two dimensional thing, though. You're only looking at left and right, but high and low is off-line as well. A putt hitting the front of the cage is no more "on-line" than a putt that misses six inches to the left or right.

 

[sumo21]

That is the risk that you take when trying to go for the BIG reward type shot. And now that I said it, I will probably have a monster roll away during my next round.

 

[Pbmercil]

Make your putt or dont go for it in the first place. I like sloped greens for the risk reward and pucker factor.

 

[Pbmercil]

Also the idea that the player who hit the tray had a better shot is nonsense. A low putt has zero chance to go in. He never gave it a chance. Somebody who air mails it completely at least had the hieght to give it a go. A front rim banger isthe worst possible miss

 

[brandon21486]

Flukey putts happen to those too, though maybe not as often. I once had a 75 foot rollaway after hitting the cage on a 35 footer at Mt Airy, Hole 17, using a Blowfly. My jaw dropped in astonishment, of course (and I traded away the disc ), but stuff happens, you know?

I had this happen when I had just started. Thought it was going to be the longest putt I had made...it then rolled right past me to probably about 80' from the basket.

Edit: Not a blowfly but similar distances that is.

 

[DGHippie]

I like the risk/reward shots. It's not much different than putting the basket near a pond (Memorial) or next to a cliff(Masters Cup) That being said I wouldn't whine too much if someone wanted to lay down some mulch around a basket to help the discs sit still when they rattle off the cage. The only downside might be fewer of the fluke skip-ins that everyone seems to love.