How deep should a Payout Be?

[DavidSauls]

Harold Duvall and Innova have run some True Amateur events under that formula---but also with a modest entry fee, I think $25 for a 2-day event. I get the impression Harold's not a fan of the $50-$60 entry, big Am payout that is common around here.

They've done it on courses where attendance will be great, regardless of the formula.

 

[sidewinder22]

Couldn't you run a trophy only instead of a true am? I've seen this optioned in Pro events, where the entry fee is reduced, but you can't cash.

 

[Cgkdisc]

Couldn't you run a trophy only instead of a true am? I've seen this optioned in Pro events, where the entry fee is reduced, but you can't cash.

Yes. Several charity events are run that way each year but it doesn't have to be a charity event.

 

[sidewinder22]

Yes. Several charity events are run that way each year but it doesn't have to be a charity event.

Would that make them something X tiers? Still rated rounds, right?

Or maybe just weird rules or layouts for X tier?

 

[Cgkdisc]

Would that make them something X tiers? Still rated rounds, right?

Or maybe just weird rules or layouts for X tier?

These events are rated as long as they are playing normal singles rules. Here are the special charity program details: http://www.pdga.com/documents/cep-developmental-application-pdf

 

[esdubya]

I don't care about the payout, only what the group running the event does with the pay-in. Is their mission statement geared towards local advocacy, course improvements, charities? What are they doing to better peoples lives?

 

[JC17393]

Trophy Only is still an option for TDs to offer but rarely used these days. What's now called "True Amateur", where compensation is primarily a player pack, is becoming more common, especially in certain big events where dealing with lots of merch payout prizes after the event is much more cumbersome. Personally, I'm not a big fan of "True Am" because to me it feels like I'm "forced" to buy a specific set of products from a retailer and as a bonus, the retailer will host a competition where my performance doesn't really matter unless I'm a true contender to win the division. Even if the Player Pack is a merch certificate of a certain value, it's only a bit better. For example, if Payless Shoe store promoted "Buy a $50 gift certificate and play our 2-round event free", I'm probably just mildly interested if I needed shoes anyway. How about you?

What would be great is if people started viewing entry into an amateur tournament as paying for the opportunity to play an organized competitive event and nothing more. Then whatever comes in the player pack and/or is handed out to the top finishers is a bonus benefit rather than the focal point.

It's like running events where you're paying to run the course. If they hand you a tee shirt when you register or a ribbon when you finish, great, but you're there for the experience.

 

[Improbably]

I don't care about the payout, only what the group running the event does with the pay-in. Is their mission statement geared towards local advocacy, course improvements, charities? What are they doing to better peoples lives?

I have similar concerns, but swag IS what's making people's lives better. Money raised at an event being used to maintain/improve the course is a waste according to many. The course is SUPPOSED to be maintained/improved on someone else's time and dollar not cut into the event purse.

 

[sidewinder22]

I have similar concerns, but swag IS what's making people's lives better. Money raised at an event being used to maintain/improve the course is a waste according to many. The course is SUPPOSED to be maintained/improved on someone else's time and dollar not cut into the event purse.

Seriously? Swag is making lives better? Rather than maintaining a course for you to still play on?

 

[Improbably]

Seriously? Swag is making lives better? Rather than maintaining a course for you to still play on?

It's not how I feel, but it's what I'm seeing people go nuts for.

 

[Cgkdisc]

The competitive side of the sport was literally built on a mountain of swag which is why putting the genie back in the bottle for true am play will take a while. Until we establish widespread competition programs in the schools, we won't see much adult support for true am play. But by then, it looks like we'll be seeing compensation for athletes in some collegiate sports.

 

[TAFL]

I've always been an advocate of running am divisions as actual amateur events and not offering anything other than tropies/plaques/ribbons. Give every am a t-shirt, sure, though that's not necessary.

I lost interest in tournaments years ago when the TDs began jacking the am entry fees, seemingly to pump up the pro pot. Not interested in any of that nonsense. Giant play packs also don't interest me. I'll show up and pay (a small amount) simply to play an organized event with my peers. Anything else doesn't interest me.

 

[DavidSauls]

I lost interest in tournaments years ago when the TDs began jacking the am entry fees, seemingly to pump up the pro pot.

I think it's mostly done to pump up the Am payout.

I know when we tried to keep Am entries below the going rate, and paid out 100% in merch, some Ams complained about the low payouts. They seemed to miss the point about the lower entry fees.

 

[DanJon]

The majority of AM's in disc golf are entitled crybabies.

Look at a big AM tourney like the recent World's.

Most of the people there have no chance of winning, so they expect to get a players pack that is equal to, or greater than the entry fee.

How is that sustainable for anyone trying to grow the competitive side of the sport?

Amateur softball, bowling, volleyball, etc, etc would laugh at us.

 

[joshmo65]

Most of the people there have no chance of winning, so they expect to get a players pack that is equal to, or greater than the entry fee.

Well, they expect it because it is in the rules that it is required for most tournaments. 85% of entry fee for C-tiers, 100% for B-tiers, and 110% for A-tiers.

 

[biscoe]

What would be great is if people started viewing entry into an amateur tournament as paying for the opportunity to play an organized competitive event and nothing more. Then whatever comes in the player pack and/or is handed out to the top finishers is a bonus benefit rather than the focal point.

It's like running events where you're paying to run the course. If they hand you a tee shirt when you register or a ribbon when you finish, great, but you're there for the experience.

A thousand times this.

 

[CaptainAnhyzer]

45% FOR AMS
40% FOR PROS

PDGA standards are what I've followed for years and I get no complaints.

 

[DanJon]

Well, they expect it because it is in the rules that it is required for most tournaments. 85% of entry fee for C-tiers, 100% for B-tiers, and 110% for A-tiers.

I am aware of that. It's that exact system that I take issue with. It's one of those things where if its always been that way, then we should always do it that way. And of course it's sanctioned by the governing body so it will never change.

 

[teemkey]

Well, they expect it because it is in the rules that it is required for most tournaments. 85% of entry fee for C-tiers, 100% for B-tiers, and 110% for A-tiers.

And that value is MSRP not street prices. I suspect there's money being made by all the merch producers and distributors. It's a racket I tell ya.

 

[Stardoggy]

Hate to be the bearer of bad news (for all the holier-then-thou amateur status people), but if you turned am tourneys into trophy only, hardly anybody would show up.