How the acorn grows to be a mighty oak?

[sonny]

This whole "drive for show, putt for dough" anthem is getting old. I feel too like people only see distance as the main thing when comparing "driving" to putting. I break it down to throwing and putting. So drives off the tee and approach shots are throwing. If you think about it that way doesnt it change your perspective? The easiest courses out there are par 3. That means 2 throws and 1 putt for par. So 2/3rds of the game is throwing not putting. Harder courses with higher pars are even more reliant on good throwing. In terms of strokes off your game, putting will save you 1 stroke on any one hole (unless you get a roll away,etc.) but throwing accuracy can save you more than that.

Nobody ever takes a 7 or 8 on a hole because of bad putting.

You're certainly free to believe whatever you want, but I believe it's nearly impossible to overstate how important a strong putting game is in disc golf.

Of course your other throws are important. Every toss counts towards your score after all. But look around at your next tournament. The guys with the low scores are all good putters. Have you ever seen a lousy putter win? It's quite likely you may know a guy who doesn't really throw all that far but is still competitive because he's a great putter.

Ever wonder how some guys seem to hit a lot more of those 70' shots than the other guys? When you're confident with a 25' putt, you'll run at the basket on approach shots. But if you get a little nervous 20' out, not so much. Even if you think you're trying to can a 100' shot, if you're not truly confident in your putting game; I bet you're laying up.

Being a good putter opens up the game in a lot of ways - some you probably won't even realize until you have a strong, confident putting game yourself. It's not just the one stroke on a hole you mention above (although if you're like most of us, you've lost a match by just a stroke or two). It's picking up a birdie on a mediocre tee shot. It's saving par on a recovery shot from the schule because you could get within 30' of the basket.

Practice your putting kids!

 

[Garrett76zt]

You're certainly free to believe whatever you want, but I believe it's nearly impossible to overstate how important a strong putting game is in disc golf.

Of course your other throws are important. Every toss counts towards your score after all. But look around at your next tournament. The guys with the low scores are all good putters. Have you ever seen a lousy putter win? It's quite likely you may know a guy who doesn't really throw all that far but is still competitive because he's a great putter.

Ever wonder how some guys seem to hit a lot more of those 70' shots than the other guys? When you're confident with a 25' putt, you'll run at the basket on approach shots. But if you get a little nervous 20' out, not so much. Even if you think you're trying to can a 100' shot, if you're not truly confident in your putting game; I bet you're laying up.

Being a good putter opens up the game in a lot of ways - some you probably won't even realize until you have a strong, confident putting game yourself. It's not just the one stroke on a hole you mention above (although if you're like most of us, you've lost a match by just a stroke or two). It's picking up a birdie on a mediocre tee shot. It's saving par on a recovery shot from the schule because you could get within 30' of the basket.

Practice your putting kids!

I'm not saying its not important, in fact I spent an hour in the backyard tonight myself. However it cant be denied that you do more throwing than putting in a round of golf. A poor throw, especially in the woods, gets you in alot more trouble than the average poor putt.

You asked if I've ever seen a poor putter win. Yep. Me. I'm definitely a below average putter compared to my competition.

Here's a good winning strategy if you're a good thrower/poor putter that can get you a long ways: Assuming par 3, Drive off the tee for a birdie. If you park it great, make the easy putt and move on. If you dont park it and you're uncomfortable with the distance lay it up under the basket and take a 3. If the drive wasnt good enough for any easy deuce then give up on it and lay up. The key to this strategy is avoiding bogies at all costs. Take the birds when they come to you from good drives but be content with pars. A good thrower will frequently shoot under par like this. I dont know about your region but anyone shooting a few under par is hunting for a win in all amateur divisions, advanced included. I've had a bunch of 960+ rated rounds where I couldnt remember making one long putt the entire round.

If we're talking about being a top pro . . . well they can do it all . . . which is why you'll find me in my backyard.

 

[Garrett76zt]

It's not just the one stroke on a hole you mention above (although if you're like most of us, you've lost a match by just a stroke or two). It's picking up a birdie on a mediocre tee shot. It's saving par on a recovery shot from the schule because you could get within 30' of the basket.

Actually, both of those examples are 1 stroke gains.

I've seen plenty of guys who are confident putters take circle 4's and double circle 7's because they went ob off the tee or pinballed their way through the woods while finishing with a nice 30' putt.

 

[The dude on the bike]

Talent isn't always smart and it isn't always pretty. Speculation is a cognitive thing that might not be helpful in sports, look at the skill that dumb animals and even insects have.

 

[slowRoll]

Depends, is he accurate to 280'?

This whole "drive for show, putt for dough" anthem is getting old. I feel like people only see distance as the main thing when comparing "driving" to putting. I break it down to throwing and putting. So drives off the tee and approach shots are throwing. If you think about it that way doesnt it change your perspective? The easiest courses out there are par 3. That means 2 throws and 1 putt for par. So 2/3rds of the game is throwing not putting. Harder courses with higher pars are even more reliant on good throwing. In terms of strokes off your game, putting will save you 1 stroke on any one hole (unless you get a roll away,etc.) but throwing accuracy can save you more than that.

Nobody ever takes a 7 or 8 on a hole because of bad putting.

New players take alot of 7's and 8's period. I'm not sure what your point is since the entire point was to get the entry level players to spend their time learning a skill that most of us didn't learn till much later. We all loved to throw drives when we first started, but most of us never stood around and learned how to focus, how to become accurate, or how to become consistent with our putting until months or years had passed. You are taking the message out of context and trying to look at it through the eyes of a 9 year vet.

I'm not saying its not important, in fact I spent an hour in the backyard tonight myself. However it cant be denied that you do more throwing than putting in a round of golf. A poor throw, especially in the woods, gets you in alot more trouble than the average poor putt.

You asked if I've ever seen a poor putter win. Yep. Me. I'm definitely a below average putter compared to my competition.

Here's a good winning strategy if you're a good thrower/poor putter that can get you a long ways: Assuming par 3, Drive off the tee for a birdie. If you park it great, make the easy putt and move on. If you dont park it and you're uncomfortable with the distance lay it up under the basket and take a 3. If the drive wasnt good enough for any easy deuce then give up on it and lay up. The key to this strategy is avoiding bogies at all costs. Take the birds when they come to you from good drives but be content with pars. A good thrower will frequently shoot under par like this. I dont know about your region but anyone shooting a few under par is hunting for a win in all amateur divisions, advanced included. I've had a bunch of 960+ rated rounds where I couldnt remember making one long putt the entire round.

If we're talking about being a top pro . . . well they can do it all . . . which is why you'll find me in my backyard.

Of course you practice now, because you understand that finishing the hole is what the game is about. Going from point A to point B in as few strokes as possible is the point of this sport. I'm not sure what your beef was. Did you not think that the article would be helpful to new players? I never said these were my idea, but rather knowledge gathered from some of the best players in my area. Those are the resources I have to work with, and the young skinny one from TN is our current USDGC champ if that carries any weight with you.

Actually, both of those examples are 1 stroke gains.

I've seen plenty of guys who are confident putters take circle 4's and double circle 7's because they went ob off the tee or pinballed their way through the woods while finishing with a nice 30' putt.

But they are going to do that anyway because they are new. I just do not understand what thoughts your comments were trying to convey. You don't think that new players should practice their putting, but you yourself do it when you have the time? I don't get it. All newbies want to do is just throw drives anyway because that is fun. We all did it. So you're good with that, and recommend that they just continuing to do that. This site is filled with 750-850 rated golfers that could easily drop 2 or more strokes a round if they only worked on principles 1, 2, and 3.

I'm sorry if you disagree, but I stand by what I wrote.

 

[Garrett76zt]

Slow,

I have no issue at all with what you wrote, its a great writeup. You've got some very well thought out points and what I am saying isnt directly targeting any one thing that you've said. I just saw that the theme of the thread was leaning heavily towards (as it often does on this site) putting skills being the most important part of the game. I just dont understand how that can possibly be true when at least 2/3rds of the game(from a stroke perspective) is not putting. Is it an important skill to learn? Yes. Does it deserve practice time and entire threads dedicated to it? Yes. I'm just tired of hearing people (not neccesarily you) harp on new players telling them they need to first be a monster inside the circle or at least thats where they need to spend a ton of their time.

I have never practiced putting regularly. I admit I am a poor putter, nothing outside of 15' is a guarantee for me. I just know that my current strategy/philosophy (see previous posts) has gotten me a LONG ways. I believe you can be a poor putter and never have to take a bogie if you throw well. I really (seriously) am not trying to toot my own horn here but people rarely use themselves as examples to back up their points on this forum, so I will. I'm the current Am points leader in the state of Ohio. I finished top 5 in a bunch of big tourneys so far this year including BG ams and havent shot a tourney round in months that was rated less than 960. And I can't guarantee a putt outside of 15'. This weekend I played open in a local non-sanctioned tourney and cashed (5th place) and then played in a b-tier up in michigan and took 2nd in AM1 . . . over those 4 rounds of golf this weekend I can only think of 2-3 putts that i made from outside of 25ft.

I practice putting because its the embarrassing part of my game right now and I know its the key to stepping up to the next level. In my mind there is a major imbalance in my game right now between my ability to throw the disc well and to putt well . . . and I'm shooting 1000 rated rounds or close to it often. How many people do you know with the opposite imbalance that can say the same? They putt really well but are inaccurate and/or very low on power off the tee? (and again I'm stressing accuracy over distance)

I love discussion about disc golf so I'm not looking for an argument. Like you, I find the development aspect of the game fasinating and, in fact, how each person approaches the game in their own way.

 

[The dude on the bike]

Usually some good visual stimulation but the best is through verbal communication.

 

[whiz]

It is true. I played with Garrett at Bowling Green and he can't putt from more than 15' away. In all seriousness though, I think an overlooked aspect of putting is how much pressure it puts on the rest of your game if you cannot consistently make putts over 15'. It puts pressure on your drives and upshots to get, not only inside the circle, but within 15'. The difference is huge. A 15' radius is (225 x pi) while a 33' radius is (1089 x pi). That means that all things being equal you have a roughly 4 times harder job when throwing drives or upshots than someone who can consistently make those putts in the circle. Mentally this can put pressure on you as well. If you make an upshot to 25' and miss the putt and I make an upshot to 25' and make my putt you are far more likely to start thinking about whether your upshot game is starting to slip. And if you go three or four holes with no drives inside the circle you may start worrying about your driving and thinking on the tee about how to throw differently. That is bad. You (almost) never want to try to change your driving technique mid-round or mid-tournament. Maybe you start pressing. Maybe you run a few upshots and then leave yourself a 25' putt for par. Now you are losing strokes in other areas of your game just due to your putting.

Now think about the reverse. If you can confidently make putts just from 25' instead of 15' you have gone from (225 x pi) to (625 x pi), a difference of roughly 1200 square feet. That is huge. Being able to confidently make those putts means you don't have to drive every hole to the bottom of the pin. Maybe you can throw a couple safer upshots a round. Let's say you are 70' from the basket throwing your second shot from off the fairway. You have a tight gap (~12') to throw to the bottom of the basket OR you have an easy gap to pitch out that will only get you 25' from the basket. If I can make the 25' putt I will pitch out. If you have to shoot for the tight gap you have a tougher shot to make and you may lose another stroke if you miss the gap.

Moral: Putting well may take more strokes off your game than you think.

Let us just say that I have been practicing my putting a lot since BG Ams because it is a lot easier to get better at putting than to throw 50' further. So for now I'm putting in the work on my putting and, after I feel like it has improved sufficiently, I will work on driving 500'. I am playing a tournament next week with some tough competitors and I will let you know how it goes.

 

[slowRoll]

Slow,

How many people do you know with the opposite imbalance that can say the same? They putt really well but are inaccurate and/or very low on power off the tee? (and again I'm stressing accuracy over distance)

Our multi-time Open State Champ is the one that recommended the 50/50 split. I understand what you are saying but I think that somehow this conversation is going to extremes. He just suggested that over time, our games will improve the quickest if we dedicate ourselves to becoming a good putter. I believe that working on executing under pressure, shaping shots with our body, disc selection, and good decision making are just as important, but to me, it starts with being able to confidently finish the hole.

I practice putting alot, and am only a 950 golfer myself. I still miss 20 footers during rounds, but I make my fair share too. I've always thought the difference between me being an Adv guy vs. me being an Int guy was consistent putting. I don't wow anybody, but I don't make them cringe either if you know what I'm saying.

Neither of us are extremists, and we are only going back and forth about the % split of practice time. I can live with that. Thanks for your input man.

 

[whiz]

Also Garrett, since I love intellectually approaching the game of golf, if you are playing a true par 3 course and driving okay more than half of your shots SHOULD be putts. Take Hobson Grove for instance. Other than hole two which is really a par 4, every hole is reachable in one throw. What this means is that if you are driving well at least HALF of your throws are going to be putts because of how easily you can get into the circle off the drive. If you are driving poorly then you will be throwing a lot more upshots and hopefully only taking one putt per hole. This is certainly not always the case though. If you miss the first putt you are going to be looking at another putt, hopefully shorter but sometimes longer.

While longer courses change the math significantly, most courses for amateur tournaments skew towards the par 3 rather than the par 5. I love living in Charlotte, NC because we are a definite exception. If you enjoy playing longer courses you should try to make it down here at the end of June for the Charlotte Amateur Championships. Renaissance, Hornet's Nest, Nevin and Eastway. Pro pars of 61, 58, 63 and 58. Gosh, I love Charlotte. :hfive:

 

[Garrett76zt]

I love living in Charlotte, NC because we are a definite exception. If you enjoy playing longer courses you should try to make it down here at the end of June for the Charlotte Amateur Championships. Renaissance, Hornet's Nest, Nevin and Eastway. Pro pars of 61, 58, 63 and 58. Gosh, I love Charlotte. :hfive:

That would be awesome. I would love to come down. I just played Victory Park in Albion, MI yesterday. I guess it was used in the '08 Worlds. I believe par was set at 59 or 60. Absolutely love the course. There was OB listed on virtually every single hole, haha. I will check my schedule on that one Paul. . .

 

[tarel]

As a Rec player competing in tourney's for the past 1-1/2 years this is great read. I really appreciate the overall perspective as I often get lost in the enthusiasm of DG. My problem has been experimenting with all the molds and trying to chase the perfect one that'll make me a better player


How do I get out of this mindset? Searching for that rush of a great shot but in reality bogey's are bogus.

.

you answered your own question

 

[Skankin77]

Good reading!

 

[kingwo]

Since I've posted this I've learned quite a bit. Being newish to this sport. I bought into the glitz of new high speed discs that will make you "bomb" further but in the hands of myself it wasn't the case. I've focused on proper footwork on the tee, BH form, doing field work, learning my discs (and retired ones that I shouldn't be throwing). I've realized that seasoned player's know their discs inside and out and may have them in their bags for years-i.e., Ken Climo's fleshy teebird. As a result, I've calmed down and realized I can throw a Teebird as far as most discs right now and be more accurate for an up and down par. Still trying to answer my own questions.

 

[snappyfingers]

I can't believe I haven't read this thread before now!

Thread of the year people! :hfive:

 

[whiz]

Just to keep this thread going...

I think one way good players improve quickly is to work on the weakest aspects of their game more than their strengths. I know a lot of players who figure out one aspect of their game that costs them strokes and then, after working on that part of their game, they improve their play very rapidly.

I have recently been working on my putting and have seen it reflected in my tournament play. Other areas of my game that I have done this with include overhand shots, rollers, forehand/sidearm, BH anhyzers and approach shots. While field work specifically focusing on a strong BH can be good, it can often be easier to improve your overall play and scores by working more on a forehand if you do not have one or by working on a strong pitch putt style that leaves you close to the basket if you miss (instead of losing strokes on comeback putts).

Just something to think about.

TL; DR It is easier to improve one's weaknesses than to improve one's strengths.

 

[tarel]

Since I've posted this I've learned quite a bit. Being newish to this sport. I bought into the glitz of new high speed discs that will make you "bomb" further but in the hands of myself it wasn't the case. I've focused on proper footwork on the tee, BH form, doing field work, learning my discs (and retired ones that I shouldn't be throwing). I've realized that seasoned player's know their discs inside and out and may have them in their bags for years-i.e., Ken Climo's fleshy teebird. As a result, I've calmed down and realized I can throw a Teebird as far as most discs right now and be more accurate for an up and down par. Still trying to answer my own questions.

I got rid of everything and did some searching on my own as well. Thanks to the help of 3 dx tbirds[170g all 3] one new one older and one more broken in than my younger sister after a heavy night of drinking.

Awesome stuff man, I started doing the same thing and was able to get out of rec and stay competitive in am2 and staying mid field with am1.

Best of luck!
:hfive:

 

[GLong]

...and one more broken in than my younger sister after a heavy night of drinking.

:gross:

 

[medicinalfunk]

more broken in than my younger sister after a heavy night of drinking.

hey man when are you going to let me meet your sister

 

[bubbadreier]

Great read and very helpful!