I feel the heavy disc; thank you everyone.

It's why I find it difficult to throw under 200 foot shots since you have to find some way of powering down that's repeatable and consistent … utilize sidearm flicks with the wrist when throwing approaches.

I'd rather throw a 100' turnover flick than a 100' backhand. Or, rather, I'm way better that way. My max "putt" is C2. More like mid C2. Those who can get 150' from a putting stroke are Iike 650' throwers to me.
 
I'd rather throw a 100' turnover flick than a 100' backhand. Or, rather, I'm way better that way. My max "putt" is C2. More like mid C2. Those who can get 150' from a putting stroke are Iike 650' throwers to me.

It's very hard to coordinate a 100' backhand. or even 150' for that matter. You can't slow down snapping the disc at the release. The only way is to slip it out early then you have to time the microseconds of when to let go to take off power. I try to putt as far as I can, then next option is forehand with a zone, then if I really have to I'll backhand a berg or envy and try to slip it out. But then sometimes it slips out way too early and you throw it like 50'. Lol
 
I can throw nose-up backhand approaches that nestle fine, with a Sky God4 or Rainmaker. The nose up and no backswing while still looking at the target shot. Still prefer flick.
 
It's very hard to coordinate a 100' backhand. or even 150' for that matter. You can't slow down snapping the disc at the release. The only way is to slip it out early then you have to time the microseconds of when to let go to take off power. I try to putt as far as I can, then next option is forehand with a zone, then if I really have to I'll backhand a berg or envy and try to slip it out. But then sometimes it slips out way too early and you throw it like 50'. Lol

You could try playing catch with a glitch/ultrastar
 
It's very hard to coordinate a 100' backhand. or even 150' for that matter. You can't slow down snapping the disc at the release. The only way is to slip it out early then you have to time the microseconds of when to let go to take off power. I try to putt as far as I can, then next option is forehand with a zone, then if I really have to I'll backhand a berg or envy and try to slip it out. But then sometimes it slips out way too early and you throw it like 50'. Lol

If you haven't I highly suggest watching these two clips from Michael Strauss, absolute game changers to my short game. Didn't click 100% the first session but a couple days later and it was cake. I've also now started incorporating inspiration from Lizotte and how he rocks on his front heel with a very open foot, also super nice to dial down power.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CVUfk12ARFA/

https://www.instagram.com/p/CVlCnYVpt8g/

If you're not on instagram you can just google instagram downloader and paste the links to get the video files.
 
ohboyohboyohboy. I have to share with someone.
So that is what the throw is supposed to feel like. It's distinctly different. Feels weightless until suddenly I'm smashing a literal (metaphorical) hammer.

Shout outs to ace it disc golf for a more approachable backhand instruction; SW22 for the drills; hyzerunibomber for connecting hammer drill to the feel of the heavy disc without I'm not sure if I would have recognized; Jaani for the feel of the brace; and everyone else sharing words of wisdom and facilitating discussion.

It really feels like I have a clear path to progression now. The grind was worth it. It took about a year of near daily experimentation to retrain my body to not pull. I probably could have gotten here faster if I wasn't so **** stubborn and ruined every session by going ok now lets try to throw far.

Why I think it was so difficult:
I wanted to be in control. It's my body. I control it. I control it to throw the frisbee far. This is not the way. I had to train my body and then let jesus take the wheel.

I had many competing ideas about aspects of the throw. For example I bounced back and forth between the idea of "there's a trick to this and it's a big one" and "there's no big trick just a ton of little tiny tricks to gain incremental distance" Turns out they're both right. The little tricks given enough time and attention turn into the big trick. What does the arm do? Nothing? A little? A lot? Box unbox; noodle arm; Depending on your perspective it's all of them. Things like this made learning feel like a black box I was on the outside of and nothing makes sense until you feel it and suddenly everything does. I think that feeling was accurate.

Instant gratification: Increase in effort always resulted in a relatively linear increase in force. This encouraged me to be strong and throw hard and early This is how I threw on the course. I worked my way up to what felt like my absolute ceiling of 350' by sprinting up and smashing understable high speed drivers as a 5'7 165 skinnyfat but mildly athletic 28 year old. It was surprisingly accurate but completely unsustainable long term and completely detrimental to the rebuild I was trying to facilitate long term.

My big mind****s:
Gripping the disc creates tension and tension started the pull. I had to train myself to never grip the disc to not fire early. I DON'T GRIP THE DISC MY BODY DOES as a reaction. Pointer finger over thumb grip kind of bypasses this but is far too weak for a good rip in my experience.

Do as little as possible. Now do less. Pendulums are not propelled by mechanical force they are propelled by gravity and inertia.

If you're trying to get in a position you're not in position.
Related:Swing thoughts can only train the swing thought not the swing. Swing thought is practice and the swing is performance. Relating this to music and playing guitar, if you're in a performance and suddenly you think about what your hands are doing you done ****ed up bucko you're probably going to make a mistake. I play rocket league at a high level do you ever think about what your hands are doing playing video games? If you do you're probably not very good at them.

Thank you all so very much.
Learning disc golf is a trip and staying loose is therapy.

Stay classy San Diego.
Just, "Wow"!!! I hope I get there soon - can't wait!
 
I could be wrong, but I think what he is saying is pretty much in the orbit of standard grip advice.

The grip has to be dynamic, and allowing it to be dynamic facilitates a significant natural reaction that occurs at the right time.

Early release and grip lock, in my experience, are better explained with something that went wrong far earlier in the swing.
I am still new to DG, but I think in my group of all new players, I see grip lock most when we try to throw too hard, end up getting almost everything wrong, but especially end up off balance so badly that we are unable to release the disc because we are busy trying to keep from falling down. I say this because most grip locks, it seems like the thrower tried too hard, was nearly falling down, and tried to regain their balance - even though, when I tell them that, they often say "no, I just released it too late". Does that seem right, and common?
 
I am still new to DG, but I think in my group of all new players, I see grip lock most when we try to throw too hard, end up getting almost everything wrong, but especially end up off balance so badly that we are unable to release the disc because we are busy trying to keep from falling down. I say this because most grip locks, it seems like the thrower tried too hard, was nearly falling down, and tried to regain their balance - even though, when I tell them that, they often say "no, I just released it too late". Does that seem right, and common?

It does seem right and common that players say that.

Around here and elsewhere one of the dominant ideas is that the disc ought to be overwhelming the grip/leveraging out into the release rather than being consciously "released".

Many players who consciously release the disc are also landing with their shoulder or front hip open to the target (which can be independent problems), which is resulting in them swinging too "over the top" and doing the "WTF Richard."

Some other visible instructors still teach the throw as a conscious release.

Intent through the release point and posture landing in the plant seems to matter in any case.
 
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Around here and elsewhere one of the dominant ideas is that the disc ought to be overwhelming the grip/leveraging out into the release rather than being consciously "released".

Many throwers feel the disc rips out without a release. I don't know how you could prove it one way or the other.

But surely there must be a minimum speed (or distance) below which a disc can't rip out. Unless you're very good at adjusting grip pressure for the exact distance, such that it rips out at the exact angle towards target.
 
Many throwers feel the disc rips out without a release. I don't know how you could prove it one way or the other.

But surely there must be a minimum speed (or distance) below which a disc can't rip out. Unless you're very good at adjusting grip pressure for the exact distance, such that it rips out at the exact angle towards target.

Yes, I am henceforth doing my best to sidestep strong opinions one way or another, and merely sharing what is available on the marketplace of ideas. Possible that there's variability/gray areas/ multiple grains of truth out there :)
 
Lol, even after throwing for 40+ years, I still have to remember that less is more. A few months ago, I was nursing a pulled right thigh muscle. Went out and made myself pull off the plant easily and not with so much force and power.....Guess what? The disc effortlessly went 50 ft farther! It is counter-intuitive to think that you can get more by doing less...but in this sport, it is a real thing.
 
Small update dump and brag

Yesterday I threw a dx boss 440' on flat with some light swirly winds. Half my premium plastic bag I can get 400' Accuracy is the best it's ever been. There's been a lot of experimenting to get here so I'll just chime in with the last couple things that pushed me from 350-380 400 max to here.

You know how some people talk about 10:00 release position? Well i started focusing my weight there during the preshot the run up (i hop) and the throw. Consistently lower lines and great nose angle from this. In the past thinking like I thought would go past my brace which was true at the time. But not anymore. Unsure of all the mechanics that came together to make this work however. Note that this is very much a feel thing. Weight forward focused on the right leg the whole time. Wish I could be more specific here. Did notice that if I did the opposite and focused on weight in the other direction I threw sky high.

Dropping the forward pump. This is something I did a while ago but I feel was integral to my current success. As I wrote on one of John's youtube videos a big forward pump makes you really ride it's momentum for better or worse. This is great in the beginning because it gives your throw something grounded to work with/around. After a while, however, I found it much better for consistency to only ride the 'invisible pendulum' backwards into the reach. Leading to.

Reach OUT OUT OUT. As loopghost once said if it's too linear you'll come in with too much speed and blow right past the magic. I knew this to be possibly true for a long time but I always had accuracy trouble with it and with other mechanics being not as good I wasn't getting much of a power boost by trying to reach more out. Adjacent to this I feel like the last second full extension (a la slingshot) is something everybody should try.

Listen to your body and your intuition(hot take): most DG advice doesn't make sense until MONTHS later when you kind of stumble upon a mechanic and you link it backwards in time to that great advice you received a while ago. Direct brain->body doesn't work as well because while you can change a mechanic in isolation it usually requires a retooling of other mechanics to fit. This takes reps upon reps without brain getting in the way so you can evolve.

Random advice for the course (take at your own peril): Just send it. If you shanked it you were going to shank it even if you tried to power down and 'control' your shot to not shank it. In fact you probably shanked it because you were trying to not shank it. Disc golf has a bias towards stoners and christians. Stoners cuz they're too high to care so they just send it and christians because they pray to jesus to guide their shot so they just send it. Just send it.(lol)

Anywho's just really happy to accomplish and even blow past my goals for the season. I was a sub 300' thrower in april of last year probably close to 250' with no accuracy nose angle or height control. Back to my hole I'll be back when I'm throwing 450' 500 max.
Thank you everyone.
 
Great post and congratulations on your progress. Can you expand a little on the reaching "OUT OUT OUT" sensation?
So I'm just making sure I reach out away from my body as much as I can. Feel: Too much out wayyy too much i'm gonna yoink it! Real: I'm reaching slightly more out.

I think it's probably just 'wide rail'. If you search that on this forum or google you'll find a lot of info on the topic but what it seems to do for me is slow the disc down relative to the arm to make a tighter arc and allow for a larger redirect. Just gotta hold on. Straight pull is Average/Good Dan is more wide rail Shoulder spinner is I think not accelerating the arm linearly so you just wind up throwing with the spin of your body(bad).
f5651528b6f6cfa24df62a9cbdd863865ce9c3d4823ac983f51dfa0cbb4f2663

1695413724191.jpegWide rail

1695413763663.jpegStraight pull
In the past when I've tried this technique I would pull straight still and yoink hard right. Figured it just wasn't for me but turns out it just wasn't for me at that time.

Perhaps I've finally allowed the disc to come into the pocket passively which allows me to not pull it in a straight line. This is capital T TOUGH to do. It's such a fast movement that timing it with any sort of active mind is impossible. The body has to learn to do it on its own imo.

It's really funny how certain concepts like 'out in out' can evolve in your brain as they help you then hinder you then help you again.
Hope this clarified, if it didn't ask another question we'll get there.
 
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Thank you for laying that out. Getting the disc into the pocket has been somewhat of an issue for me but at this point I think there needs to be a brisk intentional inward pull (towards sternum) with a closed right shoulder, as the wrist curls and the disc does a roughly 90* counterclockwise turn. Then the hit (in my mind) is a forceful extension of the elbow followed by the tendons on the back of the wrist "bouncing" the disc out of tightly clenched thumb and forefinger.

It was especially fun to see Matty O win because lately I've been modeling my throw after him, particularly the hit. He uses a relatively short and measured walk-up and just snaps the hell out of the disc, I don't think anyone gets it out there as far with such a compact and controlled action. And he's obviously lights-out accurate. I would say he's the longest "woods" player on tour and probably has been for a long time. His swing seems wide-rail to me as well. Another interesting thing is that he seems to throw slightly nose up, I would say his overall action is similar to Barry Schultz without the pump. Anyways, rambling diatribe over now.
 
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