A buddy of mine forgot his discs today so he played with some of my backups. One hit a tree on the other side of a pond and bounced back into the water far enough from shore to make it a guaranteed no-find (it's a DEEP pond)...same pond where I sunk a driver on Monday. On another drive across a creek, the disc my buddy threw cleared the water, hit a tree 20' on the other side, flew to the left, hit another tree and landed in one of the deepest, darkest, fastest flowing sections of the creek and wasn't seen again. Oh well...that's how it goes.