Internet wisdom?

[craftsman]

Jt, i like you as a poster but i disagree with you in this thread.
Imo, dgcr has altered the full idea of dd'n and many arent getting the full reward.
If you learned good form but havent learned to throw higher then you missed.out.
If you think its easier to lean to throw higher with faster molds then again, you missed.something.
I dont have the time to type on course management....

 

[craftsman]

Im curios, what other tools are we not promoting?

 

[Widdershins]

No no no, you're taking it out of context.

Point A made by Person A: Discing down is THE way to learn X,Y,Z
Counterpoint by me: Discing down is not the only way to learn X,Y,Z and in the case of X,Y it's not even the best way.

Then you came in and flamed me. I really don't get this, do people just hate me this much? I. DISCED. DOWN. MYSELF. Jesus H Christ people, I'm a proponent of discing down! My stance is just that it's taken on this cult following where you MUST do it if you want to get better, and I'm simply just saying it's not true and there are other tools to be utilized as well.

Anybody who I've taught to play can tell you I encourage them to start with mids and putters, and work up to drivers. I'd really like to stop having the same three arguments with people...but I can't just sit and watch every newbie on this site get pounded with "DISC DOWN FOR ACCEPTANCE". This is supposed to be an open forum of disc golf ideas, but it's turning into a really narrow scope of threads.



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Anything else for me troll?

I hate to admit this, Tacoma, but I am even worse than you. I have never disced down (Oh, the shame). In Winter I disc up (ya know, because discs don't go as far in Winter). Nor have I ever taught discing down or the progression theory. I don't even artificially limit the number of molds or discs I carry.

I see a lot of players who, in spite of being very good, have never disced down or even heard of it. They are blissfully unaware of their sins. I am afraid to tell them as it might destroy their games, their confidence and self worth and ultimately their lives.

There must be a special term for these players who, in spite of their obvious skills, utterly fail to pay homage to DD. Has anyone created one yet?

 

[slowRoll]

Where oh where did I go wrong? Why did my nice little thread about insights gleaned from a private lesson with top pros turn into yet another stupid discing down arguement? And who let BroD out of the phantom zone? It's gonna take me all day to track him down and stuff him back in that flying mirror.

 

[Pwingles]

It would look pretty silly to show up at the ball golf course with nothing but a putter and a bag full of 1's...

Likewise it would also be detrimental to your game both imediately and in future games, right? Lets face it, unless youre driving to the green everytime and putting on your second shot youd be at a disadvantage right? Also would be at a disadvantage on short holes and holes that are too long for a shot off the tee to get too? Right?

Would you not argue that learning how to use your irons and wedges and shorter woods is a skillset that you would likely need to be competetive?

My point is, in disc golf, like ball golf, no matter where you start, you are eventually going to have to learn the basics in some form or another to be competetive. You dont see a single pro using a bag full of 1's because to perform certain shots a different club may aid you in performig that shot better, with more consistency.

The principal with discing down is similar to a pro spending time at the par 3, and not just the driving range with the big deivers hitting bombs.Basics, good mechanics, practice and being well rounded. Not everyone covets this, not everyone is interested in it, and not everyone needs it (although it helps more people than it doesnt imo)

 

[Jay Dub]

Where oh where did I go wrong? Why did my nice little thread about insights gleaned from a private lesson with top pros turn into yet another stupid discing down arguement? And who let BroD out of the phantom zone? It's gonna take me all day to track him down and stuff him back in that flying mirror.

Maybe what that means is DD is Internet wisdom and not real wisdom.



Seriously, I think it has nothing to do with discing down, I think you can learn the same lessons from a very understable driver. I have a dx firebird that shows me my errors at times. It's beat in, not very understable but for a firebird it is.

 

[BrotherDave]

Where oh where did I go wrong? Why did my nice little thread about insights gleaned from a private lesson with top pros turn into yet another stupid discing down arguement? And who let BroD out of the phantom zone? It's gonna take me all day to track him down and stuff him back in that flying mirror.

KNEEL BEFORE DISCING DOWN!


It harks back to that old saying, there is more than one way to skin a cat. Most new players nowadays only know one way, with a max weight (insert trendy distance driver here). DD teaches players all the other ways, it's like Prometheus bringing flame to the mortals. It's really challenging to throw a putter 300', all your fundamentals need to be on point and clean more or less. Of course, you wouldn't throw a putter 300' during a tourney if you can help it, you'd throw the more consistent, easier, and form flaw resistant midrange or driver. But being able to throw putters 300' makes throwing everything else that much easier and easier to throw farther.* It's not dissimilar to learning to excel at dribbling a basketball by dribbling tennis balls.

I think what people get caught up in is that DD is the tool most suggested but it's not the only tool that's useful. Playing catch with a lid and all the various drills like hammer pound and working backwards from the hit are also just as useful for instilling fundamentals into one's form.

*Many have misinterpreted DD as throwing only mids and putters. Not true, you just shouldn't throw anything you can't get up to speed, i.e. too fast for you. I've always recommended slow drivers b/c drivers punish bad nose angle form more than putters and mids and nose down is essential for improving distance.

 

[craftsman]

Widdrshins, how long have you and those you speak of been playing?

 

[GripEnemy]

Quoted this mid page 4, don't plan on reading more.

From personal experience, learning to throw a midrange high and nose down isn't going to teach you how to throw a speed 13 the same way.

Do you [everyone, not JTacoma] know how many of us should NEVER touch a speed 13 disc, yet we do? That's the other part of the equation people seem to forget...just because they look badass and aerodynamic doesn't mean they'll make you throw any farther.

 

[JTacoma03]

Imo, dgcr has altered the full idea of dd'n and many arent getting the full reward.

So on board with you there, even if we disagree on other stuff.

Im curious, what other tools are we not promoting?

I think a good bit of it goes hand in hand with the concept above ^^

Field practice =/= discing down, yet most people won't think about advocating the former without the latter. I mean it's just one example but how often on this site does someone tell another to take a portable basket into a field, 200' or 250' away and just throw every disc in your bag at it. Throw every shot you can think of, hyzers, anhyzers, skips, rollers, thumbers, frozen ropes, spikes, stalls, etc.

I hate to admit this, Tacoma, but I am even worse than you. I have never disced down (Oh, the shame). In Winter I disc up (ya know, because discs don't go as far in Winter). Nor have I ever taught discing down or the progression theory. I don't even artificially limit the number of molds or discs I carry.

I see a lot of players who, in spite of being very good, have never disced down or even heard of it. They are blissfully unaware of their sins. I am afraid to tell them as it might destroy their games, their confidence and self worth and ultimately their lives.

There must be a special term for these players who, in spite of their obvious skills, utterly fail to pay homage to DD. Has anyone created one yet?

I'm with you in the sense that not everybody needs it. I personally did because I saw a need for my own game. My release was inconsistent on the angle, my distance was inconsistent, and I was working too hard for too little results.

However, when I 'disced down' you didn't find me on a course just throwing rounds and hoping that one day I could magically add drivers back to the bag. In fact I shouldn't even call it discing down, it should just be called practice. I upped my collection of Buzzzes to 10 and just went to the field 3x per week for an hour: I re-worked my wrist, my body, my footwork, etc. until I saw gains enough to warrant playing competitively again...but I worked at it. Too many people advocate the process without detailing the work that needs to be done to achieve the next level.

So again, I'm with you, don't disc down - just PRACTICE! Videotape yourself and find your flaws and work to fix them ya know? That's how we all get better. Whether you use putters, mids, drivers, or all of them practice is the answer.

 

[JTacoma03]

Where oh where did I go wrong? Why did my nice little thread about insights gleaned from a private lesson with top pros turn into yet another stupid discing down arguement? And who let BroD out of the phantom zone? It's gonna take me all day to track him down and stuff him back in that flying mirror.

Sorry I'm thread poison lately. The sheeple revolt when you question the herd mentality and think for yourself.

 

[craftsman]

Jt, those drills are part of discing down imo. I view dd'n as going to dgr and following all the main pages, platau, and start over- not the dgcr intro version. Part of dd for me was playing and practicing with combinations of one, two,& three discs- learning so much about different molds and how they weigh and compliment/overlap.

The putter talk prevails because most asking for advice are either new and oaty, so a good platform will serve them well in the drills, or they are expierenced and obviously on the web asking for advice b/c its hard to get detailed advise irl; If you wont or cant post a vid, its likely youll be told to throw a putter cus its the easiest way to figure things out on your own (with a lil drive).

 

[cfair]

Where oh where did I go wrong? Why did my nice little thread about insights gleaned from a private lesson with top pros turn into yet another stupid discing down arguement? And who let BroD out of the phantom zone? It's gonna take me all day to track him down and stuff him back in that flying mirror.

It wasn't little, it wasn't insightful, and you were looking for the argument.

 

[ohtobediscing]

^^^Have you really only played two courses?

 

[jrawk]

What's fun is to take all the high speed drivers out of your buddy's bag and challenge them to friendly round. When they shoot a lower score (or equal score) to what they've done with those high speed drivers is rewarding and proof enough that speed 12 and 13 discs DON'T lower scores.... focus and concentration does.

 

[ohtobediscing]

Man, I don't know if I want to get involved in this discussion---its too depressing. [Heavy sigh] But, against my better judgement:
A buddy and I were whitewater kayakers, but were kinda stuck at the Class III 1/2 level. We got invited to meet some friends in ID for some bigwater Class IV-IV 1/2 boating.
We were scared. We had the chops, but our Eskimo roll was suspect: we could do it, but panic sometimes caused us to flail our rolls and take swims---sometimes nasty, once or twice terrifying. However, trying to improve our roll while in the shizz was only going to lead to trouser-soiling. :gross:
So we disced down.
We went to Shilshole Bay and Lake Union every evening for a week, and did 50 rolls and paddled a mile or two each time. We were using the same skills we'd be using under combat situations, but without the danger.
Neither of us swam in the two weeks in ID. In fact, I started doing first descents, and big[35'] falls, and it wasn't till 9 months later I had a minor swim on a piddly little log[heh].
I think DDing should resemble what Oklahyzer suggests---a cleaning of form, so when you need to depend on it, its good. How long? If you're a new thrower, it may take a few weeks/months[can't remember how long it took me to learn to throw a 69g Regular Frisbee---Chris'sakes, I was 7yo]. If you already have experience, a week or two might do the trick.
But every now and then we take a trip on a Class II river, and just play with small waves and eddies, rolls, and not being intimidated by the water we like to paddle---scary water. We call it hairboatin'.

 

[Widdershins]

Widdrshins, how long have you and those you speak of been playing?

How old are you?

 

[craftsman]

28. If youve been playing 28 yrs then youve disced down longer then most advocates.

 

[Mattallica]

How old are you?

What are you wearing?

 

[Widdershins]

28. If youve been playing 28 yrs then youve disced down longer then most advocates.

No, no. I have never disced down. By the time I heard the term I had been playing Pro for well over a decade.


I have tee shirts older than you.