Is this happening in your area?

[NPCTour]

There are many players out in this DG Land who just want to play disc golf and not worry about any issues like rules and regulations, competition, or even standards. Then a small percentage actually strive to play well, obey the PDGA Rules, and compete.
As a player I have a competitive background who loves the competition and practices to get better. However, locally I am faced with many players who are frustrated and just want to play disc golf and party.
I for one have no problem with the relaxed disc golf........that is what the local mini events are all about right? I was just recently told that most of the players here just want to play disc golf and care less about the competition, but want to start running quality events..........?? Kind of contradictory there. A small local group of players are highly frustrated that I have switched from running Southern National events to just PDGA events. Saying "Quality events are Southern Nationals events"
I have negative issues for PDGA as well, but hey its the best we have for now. What are the players in your area asking for?

 

[Organicvoodoo]

I just played a round.....

I was tied for 1st with somebody else and we were playing blue tee's.

We got to the 18th hole and half the group wanted to play from both red and blue pads

I declined and Said I would only play 1 shot .... Everybody got annoyed by me???

Wtf some people are just weird.

I won ctp on the playoff hole and people were acting all mad.

Point of the story... Just follow the rules, if they don't want 2 don't play with them.

 

[DavidSauls]

There is a wide spectrum of disc golfers, even within a PDGA or SN event or local mini. Some are always more competitive or serious or both.

I suspect few areas have the conflict you're encountering, on the outer edges of SN-Land. Around here, virtually all events are PDGA sanctioned. There's not a lot of call for more laid-back (party) formats for tournaments; tournament players expect tournament standards.

I'd state that those who don't, aren't interested in playing tournaments. Of course, since no one's offered a rules-casual tournament experience, maybe we're just missing out on them.

 

[Grinder12000]

Coming from a ball golf background this is identical to ball golf problem. You are playing for a small amount of money and all of a sudden some one pulls a foot wedge. WAIT, are we playing by the rules or not.

Personally I just go with the flow, if they are having fun I'm not going to get all anal. BUT, Ill remember

Your situation on the 18th. I would have stood my ground like you. MY game, I play how I want to. They were probably mad because it showed them you were a more serious player then they were.

 

[Fishy]

We have the problem here of people wanting sanctioned tourneys locally, and yet most of the players that do play the sanctioned tourneys are from out of town. We have this weird dynamic of good players that won't even travel to Denver (60 miles) to play a sanctioned tournament (or any tournament) but then try to insist we should have A-Tiers locally. We don't have a lot of sanctioned in the state (compared to back east). It's frustrating.

 

[Royal Hill]

My input for what would be a great year schedule for a local club (of moderate size or greater with other clubs within traveling distance)

A. 6-8 small events with scorecards (could be similar to what many are referring to minis)
Some, a handfull, or all of these could be low level sanctioned, or not. But score is taken, thus a level of formal competitiveness (fairness, cheating protection) goes with them. Maybe they are linked in a points series as a side feature.

B. 1-2 events as pure charity fundraisers. Food banks (eg. Ice Bowl) or Thankgiving dubs (can drive), etc, etc. Scorecards may be used, or maybe not. more likely to be uncoventional funsies.

C. Every club should aspire to one "Big" event. This could rise to B, A tier trajectory. This is the one you pull out all the connections and promotions for. Handshaking and sponsor gathering, getting out local press releases. Oh yes, this means that you are trying to draw regional players, traveling talent, thus usually needing more cash added, thus higher entry fees, thus higher effort level to run - and the local leadership may not be able to actually play this one themselves as they are now working the event. So this one becomes the high level event that is reputation building and is attended by some local members but increasingly more by outsiders.

ok, so we see that A,B,C could be attended by many of the same players, but each category is very different in feel, costs, awards, tone. Players drawn to A style are served well, and likely at easy going entry fees and flavor. Players that only like smiles and chuckles golf are served well by the fundraisers B. And the club serves the "upwardly progressing competition fix" tourney player by hosting that one large C "Big event". With most clubs doing the same by doing one "big event" this player hits the road to get their fix. (they become the traveling regional player visiting each clubs "big one")

It can be hard as part of a club leadership to know how to best serve the sport in your area. In our area, we constantly have to remember that there are about 2-3k people who play disc golf on our courses. About 200-300 come to at least one of our sign-in events. (10%) , and about 20-30 of those are hard core (by intent, not by skill necessarily) "players" who are pushing for serious layouts, and small time gambling "manly" challenges (1%).

and we have to keep in mind that that last 1% are players who by nature will always come out to play regardless of structure. They can't help it.

 

[DavidSauls]

A small local group of players are highly frustrated that I have switched from running Southern National events to just PDGA events. Saying "Quality events are Southern Nationals events"

Out of curiosity---in what way to they claim Southern National events are "higher quality"? I can understand if they prefer SN for less stringent rules (alcohol?), or lower fees for non-PDGA members, or other reasons.....but what do they find to be of higher quality?

Any reason you can't sanction as both SN and PDGA? Other than the extra $2 per player it would cost?

 

[wkelly42]

My input for what would be a great year schedule for a local club (of moderate size or greater with other clubs within traveling distance)

A. 6-8 small events with scorecards (could be similar to what many are referring to minis)
Some, a handfull, or all of these could be low level sanctioned, or not. But score is taken, thus a level of formal competitiveness (fairness, cheating protection) goes with them. Maybe they are linked in a points series as a side feature.

B. 1-2 events as pure charity fundraisers. Food banks (eg. Ice Bowl) or Thankgiving dubs (can drive), etc, etc. Scorecards may be used, or maybe not. more likely to be uncoventional funsies.

C. Every club should aspire to one "Big" event. This could rise to B, A tier trajectory. This is the one you pull out all the connections and promotions for. Handshaking and sponsor gathering, getting out local press releases. Oh yes, this means that you are trying to draw regional players, traveling talent, thus usually needing more cash added, thus higher entry fees, thus higher effort level to run - and the local leadership may not be able to actually play this one themselves as they are now working the event. So this one becomes the high level event that is reputation building and is attended by some local members but increasingly more by outsiders.

I'd add a D -- pure fun events like Birdie Bashes and Ace Races, whether they are the official ones or not. Something gimmicky that might attract people who want to check this disc golf thing out, but never have and haven't a clue how to go about it. It's something that parents could take their kids to (and could be marketed as a family event).

 

[rocthecourse]

I play disc golf to have fun and to get better, I don't care if I am better than other players or worse.

 

[tampora]

There are many players out in this DG Land who just want to play disc golf and not worry about any issues like rules and regulations, competition, or even standards.

These people are not playing disc golf. They are just having fun in a park throwing around discs. Playing the sport of disc golf means you are following the rules of the sport.

 

[jblough]

I'd add a D -- pure fun events like Birdie Bashes and Ace Races, whether they are the official ones or not. Something gimmicky that might attract people who want to check this disc golf thing out, but never have and haven't a clue how to go about it. It's something that parents could take their kids to (and could be marketed as a family event).

You're absolutely right. I've been an Ace Race TD for four years now, and approximately 20-30% of our annual playing demographic has been people who never played before or individuals who have played fewer than 5 rounds in their life. I can't speak for the entire turnout at Ace Races nationally, but it's certainly the trend in my area. Conversely, when we hold monthly tournaments, we get about 25-30 people who are seriously committed to disc golf and its rules; thus, we've never had any issues with people taking our monthlies seriously.

 

[Royal Hill]

Yes! By all means add a D for "product promotional events"

Ace race, birdie bash, DD's two disc challenge, and likely more to come. (does Latitude, westside, MVP or legacy have one running yet? They likely will!) The promo product event is pure genious.

And you are right, it is great to see a broadening of demographic.

I say, if you are hosting event after event after event, and you get the same people every time... The same mugs, the same faces, the same crew. You are missing something. When our club was building our (essentially am series) from the ground up, I was commenting at a regional team golf event that IF our new series events were just "these guys", then we should consider that we missed the mark.

Asking those same people what - they- want won't help you either... You will end up just moving in smaller and smaller circles!

 

[DavidSauls]

While good points, I think you guys are missing the O.P.'s point. He's striving to expand offerings at the other end of the scale---on the more competitive end. And bring PDGA tournaments to an area that has few of them.

 

[oddjob]

What led to the creation of SN? Was Orum involved with PDGA previously?

 

[jenb]

I've seen ball golf league events that allowed, and even provided (i.e., drink cart), alcohol on the course. The strict PDGA stance against alcohol etc. is, in my experience (from talking to such people about such events), basically the main reason many players prefer minis or non-sanctioned events. There is even a non-sanctioned series going on in the state that is sponsored by a local brewer that provides free beer at the events on the course.

I noticed that TDs at PDGA c-tiers are allowed some kind of lee-way and/or discretion regarding enforcing the prohibition rules. Does anyone know if it would be allowed for a TD to run c-tiers and provide beer on the course?

 

[AByrd]

PDGA Competition Manual 3.3.10 - Possession of alcohol from the start of play until the player's scorecard is submitted is not allowed. Such possession shall result in immediate disqualification at PDGA events sanctioned at B-Tier or higher. The Tournament Director may, at his sole discretion, elect to issue a warning to the offending player in lieu of disqualification solely at PDGA events sanctioned at C-tier and below. If a player has been previously issued a warning for alcohol possession at the same event, all subsequent violations shall result in immediate disqualification.

No. The only difference is that, in C tiers and below, the TD can give warning for alcohol possession. Second warning = Disqualification.

 

[Central Scrutinizer]

I grew up pretty sheltered. I'll never forget playing in my first Am-3 tournament when I was 22 seeing some guy crack open a tall can of Budweiser at 7:45 a.m. at the registration table...

 

[Royal Hill]

While good points, I think you guys are missing the O.P.'s point. He's striving to expand offerings at the other end of the scale---on the more competitive end. And bring PDGA tournaments to an area that has few of them.

David, you've got a good point. By reading NPC's original post is sounds like he's a bit frustrated at not having enough dedicated competitors who are focused on competition (in a sporting way). (theres competition in a sporting way vs a gambling way discussion in here somewhere ...I bet...)

First questions could be - do you think you can retrain your existing people, or do you need to attract different people? Are there a few key influencers that are driving the local player culture? Can they be swayed? Or set out what you want and stick to it? Would you be willing to stick it out through some lean events to build it back slowly, but in a better place? I think these goals are separate from any sanctioning body ties, but IF it makes a difference due to perceived local player culture tendencies, then maybe it does.

So the goal would be in how to set the tone and tenor of events that he runs to attract what he wants. If you want competitors for respectable events, then some differentiation to that end might be the ticket. That might be delegating out the less competitive events to someone else, so that when they see that the event is billed as a "NPC (insert real name) event" you know it's a "respectable event" for "respectable competitors".

maybe this can be done with promotional tone, graphics, infrastructure. Maybe fee structure. maybe how you award skill recognition. Maybe how you prize out divisions. Encourage what you want if that is your goal.

This all comes with a need for thick skin. Culture shifts are tough. Differentiation through strucutre is likely the ticket for a new raised level of professionalism or respectability. Best of luck!

 

[timj5304]

I think the OP brings quality point up but it seems to me your not content surrounding yourself with players such as those. Hence they all think your a rules nazi(which is quite possible but I do not know you). In my area we are the land of 10000 leagues in Minnesota, we go from the quite competitive Monday leagues on the East and west metro with basically all your top pdga players from MN playing these leagues, most of the top ams, masters, grandmasters and open are all in the same division! My local Wednesday league is dubbs and is kind of like you mention. Its your beer league where the majority of people are partying it up good, I personally quit drinking and so forth but its not an issue to me. For me its the environment with people who are all friendly(I bet 100 different people have been there this year and no 1 was a pain). You have anything from guys that play open in pdga events, to top ams to intermediate to several ladies to beginners who only play that one course. We all kind of play it by ear so to speak with the rules and take them more on a individual case. For instance many players that are newer are putting across where the disc is or off to the side. For the experienced players we all know one another knows the game and take the rules semi serious on one another. Leagues and minis are meant to be fun for everyone and to spread the love of the game. As players improve they naturally will take the game more serious on rules. If you have a small mini already and dont let the few you have enjoy themselves then your risking them all leaving and not bringing new players in.

 

[knettles]

I've been playing for a few years now and have played about 4 or 5 tournaments. Personally, I don't care that much whether they're sanctioned or not, although the unsanctioned ones I've played have always been cheaper entry. So that's a big plus.