Is this how to build a foundation?

[centervolume]

hey folks

I'm 48 (iirc correctly stopped counting for a while) and played for a year or 2 in the late 80s in high school. When the virus hit I converted a 10 acre lot behind my house into a 9 hole with par 3 and 4 (a lot of tunnel type holes forcing me to work on aim). Even though I didn't play disc golf for the better part of 25 years in between, I've loved throwing freestyle all that time when I could (now unlearning some of that) so I have a strong admiration for the flying disc as a thing.

Since mid March I've been around that makeshift course just about every day maybe 27 holes a day (btw, not my land so I'm not dropping a grand on targets, just mark trees with 2 lines about 2 ft apart). Started with a stingray then added an EMac Truth Prime, aviar putter, Buzz and most recently a Gstar Leopard 3 (167g,... all the discs are 165-175 range).

It's been a great journey just on the cardio and muscular side since that 25 years at a desk has not been great for me. I've lost weight, toned up a bit, great results on blood pressure and overall energy. I'm in southern MS so with thick heat and humidity I'm sweating through multiple sets of clothes each day. I stretch frequently and, knock on wood, no issues with soreness other than pissed off feet from wrong shoes.

Once I remembered how much fun this is, I decided to focus on form, watched a bunch of videos (amazing how much contradictory material there is); watching pros play in tournaments is useful. I realized I didn't have a gauge on distance so decided to get out of the woods and find a field to check distances on both arms forehand and back, so I've been able to measure progress there by tweaking my form here and there, strengthening and mental focus.

So for the last 4 months it's been those 4 discs and building an understanding of what's going on with them situationally and a bit in the field. Prior to buying the leopard 3, my thinking has been that the number system is imperfect but still a decent rule of thumb and that I would try to climb the speed ladder not going more than 2 numbers higher until I was able to get straight flight with what I had. The truth and buzz are 5s so the 'leopard 3' is a 7 but a touch lighter at 167 for control purposes. After about 3 weeks now I'm really loving the leopard and can feel I'm growing into it if that makes sense..

So I'd like some advice on a few questions:

1. Is this a sound way to progress? is this the right stuff to focus on?

2. trying to figure out a good next higher disc speed for a couple weeks out when I'm ready for an 8 or 9 speed. Was thinking escape or mantis possibly, or Dave's fav the viking

3. If there's a tree in the forest I haven't hit, it's in the minority, so my ca 1990 stingray has a split and is coming apart at the seams in bad shape. It's now off the charts understable given it started as one of the most understable and has gotten pummeled... so I'd like an understable disc but feeling the urge to explore, not sure if a new stingray would be the best place to start or what...

4. in terms of strengthening, I've been doing pull ups and pushups, what else recommended?

thanks for any advice

 

[Casey 1988]

I say get a Valkyrie if getting a 9 speed Viking disc. Just stay away from the Champion for the Glow Champion if the discs are in the slick stiff versions of Champion. The Star is OS if Flat top FYI.

 

[centervolume]

I say get a Valkyrie if getting a 9 speed Viking disc. Just stay away from the Champion for the Glow Champion if the discs are in the slick stiff versions of Champion. The Star is OS if Flat top FYI.

ok cool, this is lining up nicely with what I was just reading

thanks for reply

 

[SaROCaM]

So I'd like some advice on a few questions:

1. Is this a sound way to progress? is this the right stuff to focus on?

2. trying to figure out a good next higher disc speed for a couple weeks out when I'm ready for an 8 or 9 speed. Was thinking escape or mantis possibly, or Dave's fav the viking

3. If there's a tree in the forest I haven't hit, it's in the minority, so my ca 1990 stingray has a split and is coming apart at the seams in bad shape. It's now off the charts understable given it started as one of the most understable and has gotten pummeled... so I'd like an understable disc but feeling the urge to explore, not sure if a new stingray would be the best place to start or what...

4. in terms of strengthening, I've been doing pull ups and pushups, what else recommended?

thanks for any advice

1. Yes. Always good to learn how to control and manipulate a handful of discs on different lines, situations, etc.

2. First thought was Valkyrie, but anything similar would work. Pro plastic flies great right away, premium plastic will need some seasoning to unlock the magic. Roadrunner/Sidewinder if you want more flippy, great for hitting lines in the woods. Thunderbird in Pro or Champ if you want to stable up, though apparently the current Champ Thunderbirds are more overstable than they used to be.

3. If you want understable a Stingray is fine. Other suggestions: Tursas, Meteor. Or you can try a Comet, or if you can get a hold of a beat Roc they will turn just fine. Or get a new Roc and hit some trees with it, watch it go through its life cycle as it beats in.

4. Bodyweight stuff is fine. Unless you really are in bad shape/weak I would focus more on hip and shoulder stability and mobility, as well as core work, preferably dynamic. I used to hit the weights hard and heavy and it didn't go well with disc golf as my joints would bark at me (especially getting older.)

 

[SaROCaM]

Expanding on #4, what I have found particularly helpful for DG-related strength training/conditioning is:

1. Loaded Carries: good for conditioning, core, entire body really. A real game changer no matter what you are doing.

2. Band work focusing on upper and mid back (thoracic spine area): good for strong, stable shoulders, core, fixing issues caused by sitting at a desk for years. Easy on the joints, also good for recovery. Band pull aparts, face pulls, and variations.

3. Goblet squats: hip strength and mobility, leg strength, core stability, posture fixer. Typically done with a dumbbell or kettlebell but lots of things will do: a rock, sandbag, gallon of water, etc.

4. Take care of your elbows, especially if you throw forehands. Isometric/eccentric focused movements. If your elbows ever hurt, get yourself a Theraband Flexbar and follow the exercises once you let it calm down a bit. Also Disc Golf Strong has some good isometric stuff.

5. Speaking of, check out Disc Golf Strong. Lots of good stuff there.

 

[centervolume]

Those are awesome, loaded carries especially I can see that. Will check out disc golf strong as well. Valkyrie, sidewinder, thunderbird - noted. Meteor and comet I've also heard good things. I find the buzz is suiting me less, I think it's a touch wider diameter and tends to sail off easily to the left unless I jerk it harder to Try and stay right then it will go right so the sweet spot seems too small.

 

[Rastnav]

Just as the "devil's advocate counterpoint" --

You didn't list any of the plastics for the discs. Plastic, along with the weight, make a big difference in how a a particular mold will fly. You also didn't mention your distance numbers, nor what kind of shot shape you are throwing (you say "straight", but is that dead straight on a level, flat release? or ending up where you want to go on an high S curve?

Because of that, I'm not sure that you can conclude you are actually throwing with good form. Right now you are still solidly in "beginner disc" territory, and there is nothing wrong with that, but you may have a bad time if you go right to a premium plastic on a more overstable disc, if your form isn't progressing the way you think it is. The mention that your buzz tends to "sail off to the left" is an indicator this might be the case.

If you really want to work on form, you have to be form focused, not results focused. That means a tripod and some video review. If you have a phone, a cheap tripod will cost you $20 on Amazon. You can do self review, or even ask for advice here on the form part of forum.

Just thoughts. Could be totally wrong and I definitely don't want to rain on your parade. It sounds like you are going through a very similar path to my 50 year old self, although I probably got a little overboard with buying plastic, which you definitely haven't been bit by.

 

[centervolume]

no it's all good, I'm not looking for a bunch of 'addaboys' etc., I can see I'm making a little progress, I'm definitely having fun and I'm not sustaining wear and tear on the body from it. As for the plastics, I've had to research a little there and the leopard (Gstar) and Buzz (ESP) are really similar, sort of that more slick plastic but not translucent. It's either baseline or the next step up, I don't think it's premium. The EMac Truth is 'Prime' which I like for the grippiness but it is perhaps lower on durability. Since I'm a beginner in the woods, I've tried to go for durability. As for my definition of straight, I mean almost literally straight until fade since some of my holes are about as wide as a 1 lane country road through the woods, 15 - 20 feet... others more open.

That's a good point about taking video for commentary. That would be another way to get into the mechanics. I guess I've had enough fun and good results healthwise, that with a small perceived improvement in control and distance I figure I might as well continue investing time, focus and energy because it's all good so far, y'know? It's true what you say about discs. I immediately saw I was dealing with a way different beast than the old 175/180 gram freestyle discs I've loved. I saw the hundreds of choices, compounded by each in multiple plastics and multiple weights, in addition to 6-10 different types of throws and was like, 'damn! this could get confusing.'

Once I realized the speed and stability numbers correlated to practice and arm speed (as opposed to brute strength which appears to be a misleading way to describe long throwers) then I figured I would benefit from trying to do the work at each more challenging level to get that where I was comfortable and then set the bar higher after that.

 

[centervolume]

Just as the "devil's advocate counterpoint" --

The mention that your buzz tends to "sail off to the left" is an indicator this might be the case.

sorry, meant to include it is a Buzzz OS so I'm realizing it's supposed to glide off a little more to the left. It does however work probably the best out of the 4 for me as a forehand disc. It falls out of the line much later if at all compared to the leopard 3.

 

[SaROCaM]

sorry, meant to include it is a Buzzz OS so I'm realizing it's supposed to glide off a little more to the left. It does however work probably the best out of the 4 for me as a forehand disc. It falls out of the line much later if at all compared to the leopard 3.

If you can learn to forehand the Aviar and Leopard3 it will do wonders for your forehand game. OS discs give good results right away but mask form issues which lead to bad habits being ingrained.

The OS discs have their place, mainly for wind and for competitive situations where you want to be sure the disc will fade. To get better with understable discs for FH, you will likely have developed good spin and angle control. This will help with FH for all discs.

 

[Casey 1988]

If you can learn to forehand the Aviar and Leopard3 it will do wonders for your forehand game. OS discs give good results right away but mask form issues which lead to bad habits being ingrained.

The OS discs have their place, mainly for wind and for competitive situations where you want to be sure the disc will fade. To get better with understable discs for FH, you will likely have developed good spin and angle control. This will help with FH for all discs.

This is true to a point, if all you can do is use Lids or catch discs forehand, then it will not translate to Discs that are beveled edged. Some players do have issues using beaded disc forehand or rather concave discs forehand and I get that but most can use Concave discs forehand no matter how concave, it is the big bead that causes problems for most players that have problems with beads.

 

[autocrosscrx]

My noob 9 speed recommendation would be the Discraft Heat in Z plastic.

 

[Blobfish]

My noob 9 speed recommendation would be the Discraft Heat in Z plastic.

I'd second the Heat, only I'd go with Big Z because the graphic is great

My Z and BigZ Heats are both very understable. Slower arms get great straight shots with it, and as you pick up arm speed, you'll get a pretty easy hyzerflip disc with it.
The heat was the first driver I connected with, and I still bag two of them. I often recommend the heat as an introductory driver.

On the other hand, the first driver I got crazy distance with was the Latitude 64 diamond. Like the heat, it has crazy amounts of glide. Personally, I feel a bit more in control with the heat, but the diamond is a great disc and I gave mine to my dad and bought one for my daughter as well.

The bottom line is you're going about things correctly in that you are playing with what you have and learning to get what you can out of each disc before having a need to "graduate" to the next speed. Your buzzz is a great disc that can teach you a lot about how you can control your flight paths.

 

[RoDeO]

I'd second the Heat, only I'd go with Big Z because the graphic is great

My Z and BigZ Heats are both very understable. Slower arms get great straight shots with it, and as you pick up arm speed, you'll get a pretty easy hyzerflip disc with it.
The heat was the first driver I connected with, and I still bag two of them. I often recommend the heat as an introductory driver.

On the other hand, the first driver I got crazy distance with was the Latitude 64 diamond. Like the heat, it has crazy amounts of glide. Personally, I feel a bit more in control with the heat, but the diamond is a great disc and I gave mine to my dad and bought one for my daughter as well.

The bottom line is you're going about things correctly in that you are playing with what you have and learning to get what you can out of each disc before having a need to "graduate" to the next speed. Your buzzz is a great disc that can teach you a lot about how you can control your flight paths.

Same here. My first distance driver was the z-line Heat and it goes straight as an arrow. Also the first disc I broke through the 250 foot barrier. My other favorite was also the Diamond. I can't throw the Diamond now as it's too light (153 g) and it just flips over no matter what. I gave it to my daughter and she's now throwing over a 100 feet with it.

 

[disco40]

Sounds awesome, you're doing great. I'm jealous!

For speed 7 I recommend the Star TL, if you're getting the Leopard consistently 270 or more.

For speed 9 I second the recommend for the Valkyrie, and if you can find one that's a bit gummy and domey, even better.

If you want to try speed 8 stuff, the Teebird3 is as solid as it gets. May take a while to beat that in how you like it if you get it in premium.

 

[Casey 1988]

Sounds awesome, you're doing great. I'm jealous!

For speed 7 I recommend the Star TL, if you're getting the Leopard consistently 270 or more.

For speed 9 I second the recommend for the Valkyrie, and if you can find one that's a bit gummy and domey, even better. Casey:again if regular is not good, too stiff and slick then get the glow Champion plastic and at worst case if you can't find the disc on the ground, then dye it a color you can see like orange, pink, or the highlighter green.

If you want to try speed 8 stuff, the Teebird3 is as solid as it gets. May take a while to beat that in how you like it if you get it in premium.

In edition to this the Eagle now only in the Good wing and flies how we want the mold to without having to search and feel. A mold from Infinite discs took the odd not correct flight wing for a disc, I just do not know the name of mold.

The speed 9 disc like an Eagle with longer wing proportionally is the Starfire but that mold is only in Star and G Star.

 

[centervolume]

thanks so much everyone, I need to soak all this in and add the info into some notes I already have and figure out my next steps. Now that I've decided to continue with this as a hobby / serious hobby it's important to know I'm generally barking up the right tree in terms of how I use my time and energy. So that's where you guys come in and I really appreciate the responses.

Now I'm trying to figure out if I should get 5 or more of the same disc for field exercises. I'm not used to spending more than 10-20 bucks max a month on this but if 'serious' hobby then I figure that's part of the equation. Sounds like working with putters throwing straight at 250+, forehand etc will help dial in proper form, core strengthening as well.

best to all, stay safe

 

[zontar]

honestly, I wouldn't buy 5 of the same disc for field work. if you really want to buy 5 discs, make them all different and discover what they're all good for. and THAT will change as you develop form as well.

 

[SaROCaM]

Now I'm trying to figure out if I should get 5 or more of the same disc for field exercises. I'm not used to spending more than 10-20 bucks max a month on this but if 'serious' hobby then I figure that's part of the equation.

It will be helpful but not necessary. Mostly for efficiency where you can throw a practice shot and be able to make any adjustments and throw the same mold again right away.

Here's how I would do it if I were starting fresh:

1) Find your core molds: throwing putter,(bonus if this is the same mold as your putting putter) midrange, and fairway/driver. Try a few of each to find which ones you really like. One way to help figure this out is to play rounds with only one disc. If you feel excited and have fun throwing that mold for the whole round, that is likely a core mold.

2) As you are able, get multiples of your core molds. Prioritize the ones you throw most and/or want to start a cycle of. For me this was DX Rocs. I throw them off the tee, approaches, BH and FH. Another good choice is your putting putter, because then you will have more for putting practice. When I said it is a bonus if your putting putter and throwing putter are the same mold, this is one of the benefits: you can use a worn putter as your understable throwing putter and will already know how the mold flies, so the adjustment will be easier.

I have accumulated discs over time to where I have 10+ of my main putter, midrange, and 3 different drivers. Deciding on those main molds first will help keep the cost down if you go down this route.

 

[centervolume]

It will be helpful but not necessary. Mostly for efficiency where you can throw a practice shot and be able to make any adjustments and throw the same mold again right away.

Here's how I would do it if I were starting fresh:

1) Find your core molds: throwing putter,(bonus if this is the same mold as your putting putter) midrange, and fairway/driver... If you feel excited and have fun throwing that mold for the whole round, that is likely a core mold.

2) As you are able, get multiples of your core molds...For me this was DX Rocs. I throw them off the tee, approaches, BH and FH... When I said it is a bonus if your putting putter and throwing putter are the same mold, this is one of the benefits: you can use a worn putter as your understable throwing putter and will already know how the mold flies, so the adjustment will be easier.

I have accumulated discs over time to where I have 10+ of my main putter, midrange, and 3 different drivers. Deciding on those main molds first will help keep the cost down if you go down this route.

SaROCaM-
please excuse this is probably one of the ultimate 'noob' questions, lol but when you say "mold" ... I'm not following exactly what you mean. Do you mean the exact model, like my GStar leopard 3, is that a mold? or does a mold refer to a larger group of discs and the GStar Leopard 3 could be one member of that group or type? I'm curious to know because it sounds like you are talking about building a bag off of certain arcehtypes or 'core molds'; I'm guessing these would be your top most favorite models of putter(s), midrange, fairway driver and distance driver?? sort of embarrassing but I just had to ask