Junior Worlds Filled in About One Minute

[DavidSauls]

I've been arguing for a few years now that the "first come" rule is no longer useful, for tournaments in general. If demand exceeds capacity and some people are going to be left out, the ability to register fast online shouldn't be the major factor. Almost everything around here flash-fills, and if you're a slow typist -- or have to work or otherwise can't be available at the exact minute of registration -- you're disqualified.

This is true for local C-tiers, and should be even more true for world championships.

"First come" rules made sense once, to encourage people to pre-register (over days or weeks), and preclude TDs for showing favoritism in holding spots in the few available events, or possibly bumping out people who were already signed up. Now we're talking about minutes, and there are many events to choose from around here.

 

[runningDoc]

maybe make amateur regionals a bigger deal/event?

so organize and expand the regionals (example east, west, central, and south).

the top 5-10 (or more if you want to have a whole course full) from each regionals make up the final pool for championships.

the amateur championships can be held with world championships as a showcase for future stars (sponsors can already bid for players by final round).

 

[DavidSauls]

The drawback to having regional qualifiers is that most Ams, and particularly Juniors, aren't on the road playing disc golf. In addition to a commitment of a week's travel for Worlds, it means some potentially long travel for regionals -- and a nice advantage for those local to wherever the regional is being played.

And, of course, you need a system to determine who gets to play in those regionals, which brings us right back to the original problem.

Which isn't to say there aren't also drawbacks to other criteria -- points, ratings, state championships, etc. -- too. Which is why I thought perhaps a combination would make sense: a certain number of slots for most points, a certain most for highest ratings (with minimum number of events), a certain number for qualifiers of some sort. Multiple routes to get in, so that players hurt by one method can get in with another.

 

[DavidSauls]

Tell me you don't know anything about the availability of good internet in rural America without telling me you don't know anything about the availability of good internet in rural America

Amen. I live 65 miles from the supposed capital of the free world and have very limited options.

Yep. Real internet came to my neighborhood 3 years ago, this month, and I know plenty of people who still don't have it. That's the fiber optic; for cell service, you're doing good if you can find a single bar, even today.

Before we got it, for anything like rapid registrations (or uploading scores, as TD), I'd stay late at work and use that.

Not the best standard for who should get in a tournament, or not.

 

[Monocacy]

From a competitive swimming perspective: Age-group swim meets have time-based and age-based standards (B, A, AA, AAA, etc.). If you want to swim in an AAA meet as an 11-12 year old girl, you need to swim the AAA time or faster for that event. US Swimming describes these as "motivational times." Seems like a similar system could work for Junior Worlds, if demand continues to exceed the number of available slots.

2021-24 National Age Group Motivational Times (clicky)

From a parental perspective: Children are going to deal with disappointments in life, and teaching children to deal with disappointment is a parental responsibility. Much better for a child to learn to deal with disappointment (with parental support available), than later in life when the stakes are higher and they may have less support.

And yes, our children dealt with disappointments as well as successes in their athletic lives, and I am grateful for both.

 

[Monocacy]

And, um, holy crackers the times have gotten way faster since I was swimming *mumble mumble* years ago.

 

[nothinbuttree]

Amen. I live 65 miles from the supposed capital of the free world and have very limited options.

I live 4 miles from a mid-size Ohio city and have one choice for internet, and it drops about 30-40 times daily. But I also remember 300 baud modems so its all relative.

 

[runningDoc]

The drawback to having regional qualifiers is that most Ams, and particularly Juniors, aren't on the road playing disc golf. In addition to a commitment of a week's travel for Worlds, it means some potentially long travel for regionals -- and a nice advantage for those local to wherever the regional is being played.

i think in the case of an expanded regional championship you can have the advantage of just skipping amature usa championshp if its obvious you're pro ready.

like if the west regional championship is a super stacked jr field full of 1000 rated pro ready players and you just lap the field then you can have the option of playing pro directly and forgo traveling to amateur championships.

it also helps out the others still maturing into their games and within that year might physically mature more and be a different player by the time the actual championships arrive.

maybe even give the regional winner (or top 4 players) an exemption (qualified to win cash and sponsorship) as an option for them to play pro until amateur championships happen as a way for them to decide if they're ready or not.

this is the reward for being top 4 (or more) in regional championships. you're not forced to travel to other tournaments to qualify for am championships.

 

[robdeforge]

Yep. Real internet came to my neighborhood 3 years ago, this month, and I know plenty of people who still don't have it. That's the fiber optic; for cell service, you're doing good if you can find a single bar, even today.

Before we got it, for anything like rapid registrations (or uploading scores, as TD), I'd stay late at work and use that.

Not the best standard for who should get in a tournament, or not.

Amen. I live 65 miles from the supposed capital of the free world and have very limited options.

not to derail the thread any further talking about internet access, but I've had starlink for about a month now coming from 7 down/.7 up DSL. The speed difference is incredibly noticeable but because of obstructions there are still a decent amount of connectivity interruptions that alone could screw me during a registration situation like this.

 

[Dcinmd]

"First come" rules made sense once, to encourage people to pre-register (over days or weeks), and preclude TDs for showing favoritism in holding spots in the few available events, or possibly bumping out people who were already signed up. Now we're talking about minutes, and there are many events to choose from around here.

The other huge issue in the sheer amount of people that sign up for an event that have no clue if they are even going to play in the event.

The amount of drops this past year have been staggering, often leaving events with 10% capacity the day of. And that after like 20 deep waitlist.

Much less of an issue at Majors, more so on the A to C tiers levels.

 

[DavidSauls]

The other huge issue in the sheer amount of people that sign up for an event that have no clue if they are even going to play in the event.

The amount of drops this past year have been staggering, often leaving events with 10% capacity the day of. And that after like 20 deep waitlist.

Much less of an issue at Majors, more so on the A to C tiers levels.

Yeah, that goes with the flash registration. And the long lead times, at least around here. If you aren't certain you can play, but the only possibility is registering by 8:01 p.m. on a Tuesday, 3 months early, you do it.

 

[ILUVSMGS18]

I'm getting really annoyed at all of the instant fill tournaments that I'd like to play, but the only way to guarantee a spot is to hole sponsor, which isn't fair IMO. My area can still offer day of signups yet the nearest 2 clubs (which are 2+hr drives away) sellout instantly. The joys of small town life, but also the drawbacks.

 

[biscoe]

The other huge issue in the sheer amount of people that sign up for an event that have no clue if they are even going to play in the event.

The amount of drops this past year have been staggering, often leaving events with 10% capacity the day of. And that after like 20 deep waitlist.

Much less of an issue at Majors, more so on the A to C tiers levels.

I have gone through almost 80 people on the waitlist for Lake Marshall next week- basically 1-2 a day for the last 2 months. I am sure the event will start at slightly less than capacity which is my preference anyway. This is 20% fewer than last year though.

 

[Mando]

I have gone through almost 80 people on the waitlist for Lake Marshall next week- basically 1-2 a day for the last 2 months. I am sure the event will start at slightly less than capacity which is my preference anyway. This is 20% fewer than last year though.

I tried a couple of sanc tourneys last year and had a drop rate over 30% during the last week. For whatever reason, never had a drop rate over 5% in many non-sanc events. Needless to say, not doing anymore sanctioned events until something changes.
I like the vibe better too,especially with doubles.

 

[Dcinmd]

I have gone through almost 80 people on the waitlist for Lake Marshall next week- basically 1-2 a day for the last 2 months. I am sure the event will start at slightly less than capacity which is my preference anyway. This is 20% fewer than last year though.

Oh I seen how busy they've kept you.

What percentage of the drops would you say are 6 digit PDGA numbers?

I have a rough number in mind and wonder if I am close.

 

[ru4por]

I have gone through almost 80 people on the waitlist for Lake Marshall next week- basically 1-2 a day for the last 2 months. I am sure the event will start at slightly less than capacity which is my preference anyway. This is 20% fewer than last year though.

That is super frustrating for both the TD and a bunch of players. Prepay helps. We intentionally hold out on opening reg until a couple weeks after many area tournaments open. The worst offenders are the no call/no show. Simply leaving you hanging on the day of the event and preventing backfilling off the waitlist. We had a handful of repeat offenders that we warned and then refused future entry.

 

[biscoe]

Oh I seen how busy they've kept you.

What percentage of the drops would you say are 6 digit PDGA numbers?

I have a rough number in mind and wonder if I am close.

6 digit PDGA numbers represent 75% of the drops and 62% of the remaining field. I can't really blame people for speculative registrations however when I do it myself all the time now too.

 

[Chains Bailey]

That is super frustrating for both the TD and a bunch of players. Prepay helps. We intentionally hold out on opening reg until a couple weeks after many area tournaments open. The worst offenders are the no call/no show. Simply leaving you hanging on the day of the event and preventing backfilling off the waitlist. We had a handful of repeat offenders that we warned and then refused future entry.

This year I have attempted to create a solution for this problem. I consider it solved and maybe other TDs can institute a similar practice.

IMO, if a player does not update their registration weeks/days out from the event after receiving emails through DGScene and being notified via FBook (When possible), they have given up their claim to that spot.

For my example - there are 10 players "In" the event, but have not updated their registration and there are 10 players on the waitlist.

What I have done is announced a deadline for players to update their registration - around 6PM the night before the event. At that time (6M) ALL of the players are now considered IN and registration simply opens up to FIRST PAID = FIRST IN until all the spots are filled.

So, in the above example the 10 players that were "In" have given up their priority and now are within a group of 20 players - all eligible to register freely. The ones who really want to play are at the ready to fill those previously unclaimed spots.


NOTES ---

- You have to abandon the numerical order of the waitlist. It would be impossible to wait for the "1." waitlist player to maybe sign up and continue in this fashion down the list.
- On DGScene you have to PROMOTE all the players into the event and simply monitor who pays first, second....until the event is full.

I will continue this practice from now on, as it really helped negate the problems caused by players not updating their registration and leaving any number of spots in the event empty. It seemed well received by the players in general - no complaints from anyone and the group of players from the waitlist were very happy.