Ken Climo full on foot fault in the finals...

[lyleoross]

I am sorry Lyle, I just can't buy it. And as a 55-yr-old African-American male I have real stories about police officers as my testimony ... but that's a digression.

I have no problem being stopped (or "called out") by an officer if I am speeding -- legitimately. Speeding is a violation of the law whether anyone else is caught speeding or not. The fact that the officer is less likely to stop a speeding white male is inconsequential to the fact that I violated the law. The problem in our society is when he stops me when I AM NOT speeding. again, digression....

Similarly, or analogously, if it IS a foot fault (a violation of the rule) it doesn't change that fact if others have or have not been called on their alleged foot faults. Foot-faulting is a violation of the rule. [The only difference in this analogy is that there is an "official" on the highway, whereas in disc golf we self-officiate.] That's not a problem with the rule. That's a problem with us. Now if you're bringing in the the gambling component, we're talking about an entirely different topic.

I say it IS fair if I'm speeding that I get a ticket (even if some people of other ethnicities/genders won't); and it IS fair that when I foot fault or I see another player foot fault that it is called (even if some others aren't called). I have the choice to not speed and not foot fault. And by the way, I've seen the video several times and I think Mr. Stokely did foot fault both times -- and I like Scott. Whether there was some grassy knoll sinister plot is also inconsequential; if the two people on the scene saw a fault, it's a fault.

That is exactly the point, I stayed within the law, but there is clear evidence that police do stop non-whites, not in violation. There is a point of issue here that Ken and Patrick didn't really see a foot fault, but rather, decided to take an issue with Mr. Stokely. Because the violation happens on the fly, Mr. Stokely can't defend himself against a potential abuse. He has no real course of action.

The rule, as it stands, allows for abuse. It isn't grassy knoll stuff, it's a rule that doesn't work well because it is taken on the fly, in a round, where players may or may not be paying attention, unless they have a grudge or similar to play out. That makes it an issue, like it or not. The solution is simple enough, the rule can be modified to make the call easier and getting it right easier, again, like it or not.

So, lets just take the point of view, Scott didn't foot fault on the second call, for funsies. Yet here he sits, with a stroke, and a mind set that is anywhere that it needs to be, in the middle of worlds. Personally, I find that unfair. It is clear that many don't, but I do, and will continue to. Yep, first call legitimate, I think Ken and Patrick are turd sandwiches for the call, and do believe in karma. But you're correct, he broke a rule; second call, to all appearances was BS. So in our funsies fantasy world, are you standing by that call? Do you think it was okay? Do you think it was fair?

We aren't talking world shaking, or critically important to sport, or even to this sport in general. As a fifty five year old male, like yourself, wait, what's the purpose of that? Never mind.

 

[mcrow24]

I agree - it was not intentional. But I do think he missed his line.

Two questions for the forum:
1) Is a player allowed to call his own fault, lest a re-throw provide him an opportunity to make a better shot?

Yes, I believe he could have called his own fault. That would be a warning, assuming no other faults that round. I think he would have gotten a rethrow at no penalty because it was only a warning. If he had been warned already it would be rethrow and stroke.

2) Does the fact that he is THE CHAMP make any of you a little more hesitant about calling him on a violation (or perhaps make Terry or the other players hesitant about mentioning it)? I call plenty of co-competitors (more than I ever see anybody else, anyway), but I stopped doing it this weekend (playing in open) when it's clear that a player is out of the running for cash, etc. I know I should still call every violation I see, because it is still effecting the scoring and ratings distributions, but I don't want to seen as the tournament snitch/whatever. If I ever played a big tournament, then I might be even more hesitant to call a touring pro on a fault.

Me personally, i'd have called it. It's a final 9. IMO, he probably would have benefited from a fault because the throw wasn't good, that's why I don't think it was on purpose.

 

[markmcc]

Yes, I believe he could have called his own fault.

Nope. 802.04E - A player shall receive a warning for the first stance violation in the round. Subsequent stance violations in the same round shall incur a one-throw penalty. Stance violations may not be called or seconded by the thrower.

 

[mcrow24]

Nope. 802.04E - A player shall receive a warning for the first stance violation in the round. Subsequent stance violations in the same round shall incur a one-throw penalty. Stance violations may not be called or seconded by the thrower.

Ok, still, he would have been better off if it was called and he got the rethrow.

 

[paulw]

not a foot fault - didnt see it

 

[coupe]

So, lets just take the point of view, Scott didn't foot fault on the second call, for funsies.

Nope. Homie ain't playin' that game. You're fishing for an excuse to justify your unwillingness to call foot faults when you see them.

You want funsies, stick to casual rounds and non-sanctioned play. In sanctioned play, man up and call them. Every time.

 

[teemkey]

Nope. Homie ain't playin' that game. You're fishing for an excuse to justify your unwillingness to call foot faults when you see them.

You want funsies, stick to casual rounds and non-sanctioned play. In sanctioned play, man up and call them. Every time.

Practicality check: Do you think there needs to be a rule that a player cannot throw until one or more members of the group (or tournament officials) are in a position to determine if a foot fault occurred?

 

[BrotherDave]

This could have easily been avoided if Climo had worn his DG clown shoes.



Or set his mini down incorrectly to get that little extra space from that tree he needed since nobody pays attention to mini placement. :|

 

[ToddL]

So, in this case, the line of play does not pass to the correct side of that mandatory?

LOP passes to the correct side of the mandatory.

I also came up with this thought, even though accidental on Kenny's part, the Mando is the radial point to mark the lie before passing the mando. THOUGH... this particular mando is an odd duck. It's effectively a small fence of dead wood, which is probably at a 45 degree angle down the fairway (It's more in play for the long tee which is a true dogleg. This particular lie may have passed the mando, but since there's no defining line, it's hard to say what is truly "past" the mando, in this case, if you shanked your drive to the right, you could "pass" the mando 100 feet right of the tee, but still not be anywhere near past the actual mando.

I think his intent was to throw from behind the basket line lie though, not the mando line. But since it's only noticed in a video, it's moot. Video is not able to be used to call foot faults.

C'mon bro. I know you were there a week ago and I haven't been there in a year, but I think this is how the hole is laid out. Maybe on the left side of my circle, but he was very purposely marking his spot in line with the basket (5:50-6:00 mark of the video)

Clearly a foot fault.

 

[chris deitzel]

nice photo, but the basket is considerably farther to the left.

 

[eegor]

This thread reinforces my contention that tournaments are not fun.

Disc golf is fun. Arguing on and on about rules isn't fun. (It's a foot fault and should've been called - the mando argument is bizarre considering the positioning of the mando in relation to the basket).

 

[Steve West]

...Arguing on and on about rules isn't fun.

Wait, it's not?

 

[joshhyzer]

Barry Schultz called a foot fault on himself after a missed putt, and someone seconeded it. Made the reputt.

 

[ToddL]

This thread reinforces my contention that tournaments are not fun.

Disc golf is fun. Arguing on and on about rules isn't fun. (It's a foot fault and should've been called - the mando argument is bizarre considering the positioning of the mando in relation to the basket).

If you play by the rules, then you don't have to argue about it.

The rules aren't there to punish you or stop you from having fun. The rules are there to make sure we're all playing the same game.
You take your gimme putts, I'll start moving obstructions between my lie and the basket, and someone else will start throwing a foot to the side of his lie. When I end up with a few hundred dollars more prize money than you, or when I win the bet and you have to buy my dinner tonight, all of the sudden that "fun" attitude starts to morph into a "fair" attitude.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

what a cheating SOB. I used to love KC too.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

Sure looks like his toe was in line with the basket. no foot fault.

are you a certified DGCR official ?

#ISEENIT!

 

[BrotherDave]

If you play by the rules, then you don't have to argue about it.

The rules aren't there to punish you or stop you from having fun. The rules are there to make sure we're all playing the same game.
You take your gimme putts, I'll start moving obstructions between my lie and the basket, and someone else will start throwing a foot to the side of his lie. When I end up with a few hundred dollars more prize money than you, or when I win the bet and you have to buy my dinner tonight, all of the sudden that "fun" attitude starts to morph into a "fair" attitude.

The rules' enforcement is predicated on players officiating each other so playing by the rules literally means you have to argue about it unless you only play with people that never break any rules. :\

 

[DiscJunkie]

Sure looks like his toe was in line with the basket. no foot fault.

Apparently, Chris and myself are all by ourselves.
I could be wrong, but it sure looks like the toe of his shoe was in line with the basket.
Of course, I was not there as a player, and video review is not allowed, and nobody in the group called a foot fault...
So guess what???
No foot fault.:\

 

[air show]

As I have seen argued in other threads- (stand still throws after your tee shot). I'm starting to like the idea. Though it would not eliminate all foot faults it would eliminate much of the guess work on a throw like Climo had. I think it might be good for the game. Most 1000 ranked players can go over 400ft from a stand still anyway, and it would give everyone else something new to practice on.

 

[coldsweat]

Not to get too off topic...but does anyone know what he was putting with in the tourney? Did not look like a KC Aviar. Looked a little lower profile than that to me.