[Latitude] Latitude 64 Opto Air

[Wanderer]

My two 157g Air Bolts didn't perform so well the second time around at a field. It was breezy this time with shifting winds, and I was having trouble controlling the Bolt even when not throwing directly into the wind. Some throws were flipping over into near rollers, most were just tracking too far right. Adjusting release angle to more hyzer only helped a little, still turned too much.

My former 170 GL did not have this problem in similar wind conditions....probably due to the higher weight, or possibly higher PLH. I no longer have it to compare.

The Bolt is very fast, and touchy, which I attribute to the very sharp edge in addition to its being understable.

So, the question for me is whether to use the Air Bolt only in completely calm conditions or just take it out of the bag and try a slightly more stable max distance driver. I have a champ Katana on order, which should be more stable than the Bolt.

 

[Monkeypaws]

I was playing in a cold wind yesterday and it was flip city, even my Gazelle and Teebird were turning over. I definitely think cold has an effect; throw in wind, coats, and cold hands, and it is hard to tell where exactly a throw is breaking down.

I know it isn't the discs

 

[AndyJB]

My buddy geofflaw got an Air Bolt, and I would say it flies very similiar to my Air King. My King is a 151g, and his Bolt is a 155g. He is a lower-powered thrower than I, but he is still getting great D...when he hits it right. I threw it twice before the round, and it hyzer-flipped beautifully for a near 400 foot drive (big D for me). geofflaw is a forehand driver though, and I can tell you the Bolt, much like the Air King, is not a good forehanding disc. It just flipped right over into an off-center roller.

I think they are both great discs, very workable, but you have to be patient with them and really nail your technique.

 

[ManU]

I have an Air King to trade for an Air Bolt if anyone is interested
(didn't think this needed an entire thread in the MP...but yes I have paid the money to be able to do so)

 

[alcstradamus]

Could possibly have been the layers of clothing you had on that day too. Did you wear the same layers both days?

Yes, I wore the exact same clothing (long sleeve shirt with an extra layer t-shirt over the top). It was high 30's-low 40's so layering furhter was not necessary.

I experimented at the beginning and end of all my rounds, so my hands being cold and losing grip did not have an effect.

My form was pretty consistent both days, I know how my discs fly when I am throwing poorly and OAT was not a major player those two days

The wind was slightly higher on the first day which would definitely effect the disc, however it was only a couple MPH difference and they were even flipping in a tailwind on the first day.

Literally the only difference I could come up with was the first day the discs were cold and stiff from a sub-freezing night in the car, and the second day the discs were warm and flexible from a night in the house.

And trust me, they were flipping early and flipping hard on the first day, it was completely uncontrollable on any release angle, height, or power level.

 

[ManU]

the cold disc could be the answer if you think about the fact that cold can make something contract (unless you are talking about water)
and the contraction (like the cooling process during production) could result in a lower PLH

I suppose it is also equally possible that you could have the PLH raised by the contraction but I suspect what happens might be influenced by the initial shape of the disc/wing

(i.e. a flat FB might have the PLH raised making it more OS)

pure speculation on my part though

 

[Wanderer]

You need good technique/clean form when throwing any understable disc. OAT will play havoc. The issue with high speed drivers that are too understable is that the wind, even small amounts, really mess with them. The Mamba is the same as the Bolt, in that regard.

I own both, and even with clean form and using a hyzer release, in windy conditions they can and will flip over way too much under full power. This is hardly something new to disc golfers.

The Air Bolt shouldn't be as understable as the Mamba, but my 2 are. 2 Air Bolts at 157g, 1 Mamba at 157g. My GL Bolt was nowhere near as understable as the Air Bolt. It was usable in the wind, with maybe a little more lateral movement than in calm conditions.

 

[mojorisin35]

Opto Air King 157g

I just received an Opto Air king 157g. My initial impressions, after some field time this afternoon is that it is definitely a keeper.

The one I have is yellow and domey and flies very similar to my max weight Opto king.

His highness stood up beautifully from hyzer and lazer beamed out 350ft and faded. It flew the line I have come to expect from my kings (except the freak flat low plh color shift which was so understable as to be silly (looking at you ManU)).

The opto Air when thrown flat had a touch more turn (.5) than the opto and the same fade. The air fade is not like the opto in that the fade just seems to die where the opto has some forward fade to it.

When I threw the opto and the air side by side the air was consistently 30-50 ft longer for me. The wind picked up later in the session and the air was kicked around a bit but not as much as I expected from my experience with the blizzard discs I have thrown.

The opto air king also outperformed the 150 blizzard boss with bubbles in the flight plate I have been using for all out max d by 20-30 ft. Having said that the boss is staying in the bag as the lines that these discs take to get out there are completely different.

If you throw a king it is well worth the investment to pick up an opto air. I will update as I get more time with the king but right know I am highly impressed.
Gary

 

[nnovia]

My two 157g Air Bolts didn't perform so well the second time around at a field. It was breezy this time with shifting winds, and I was having trouble controlling the Bolt even when not throwing directly into the wind. Some throws were flipping over into near rollers, most were just tracking too far right. Adjusting release angle to more hyzer only helped a little, still turned too much.

My former 170 GL did not have this problem in similar wind conditions....probably due to the higher weight, or possibly higher PLH. I no longer have it to compare.

The Bolt is very fast, and touchy, which I attribute to the very sharp edge in addition to its being understable.

So, the question for me is whether to use the Air Bolt only in completely calm conditions or just take it out of the bag and try a slightly more stable max distance driver. I have a champ Katana on order, which should be more stable than the Bolt.

I was throwing the X1 plastic Bolt. It was a great driver for me, not into the wind, but anything else. 172G. I was so impressed I got the Air Bolt. Way too flippy for even me, who can't throw over 325 feet. It is lighter at 167 or so. The quality is great though. I love the Opto Air concept. My Air Saint is awesome! That thing glides and glides....little turn, and steady fade. It draws a subtle "s"curve!

 

[ManU]

I just received an Opto Air king 157g. My initial impressions, after some field time this afternoon is that it is definitely a keeper.

The one I have is yellow and domey and flies very similar to my max weight Opto king.

His highness stood up beautifully from hyzer and lazer beamed out 350ft and faded. It flew the line I have come to expect from my kings (except the freak flat low plh color shift which was so understable as to be silly (looking at you ManU)).

The opto Air when thrown flat had a touch more turn (.5) than the opto and the same fade. The air fade is not like the opto in that the fade just seems to die where the opto has some forward fade to it.

When I threw the opto and the air side by side the air was consistently 30-50 ft longer for me. The wind picked up later in the session and the air was kicked around a bit but not as much as I expected from my experience with the blizzard discs I have thrown.

The opto air king also outperformed the 150 blizzard boss with bubbles in the flight plate I have been using for all out max d by 20-30 ft. Having said that the boss is staying in the bag as the lines that these discs take to get out there are completely different.

If you throw a king it is well worth the investment to pick up an opto air. I will update as I get more time with the king but right know I am highly impressed.
Gary

now I'm sure I would have told you it was U/S
but that was my problem with those Kings...and although allegedly more U/S I have better success with the Bolt
the Opto Air King is decent but won't stay in my bag given I have Bolts

 

[mojorisin35]

now I'm sure I would have told you it was U/S
but that was my problem with those Kings...and although allegedly more U/S I have better success with the Bolt
the Opto Air King is decent but won't stay in my bag given I have Bolts

You did and I am just teasing you in a fun way. You were perfectly clear as to the understability of the disc and wow that was the most understable disc I have thrown and I love the mamba....
The bolt was similiar stability as the king for me. I found the king was consistently 20-30 ft longer though and in kamloops distance is king...lol
Gary
And I will take that king of your hands...

 

[ManU]

all good my friend
that was a run of Kings that did not match the flight ratings

is the wing slightly larger on the King than the Bolt?

on our courses as well distance counts
I think your courses do have more danger though...that's a good thing

 

[Wanderer]

Air Bolts more stable than Air Kings? That is scary for the King! I can't use the Air Bolt...I have two at 157g(red), normal dome too, but even in calm conditions it still tracks right too far. Not an OAT issue, I throw mostly hyzer-flip and only occasionally flat with more stable drivers or if I want to minimize fade.

 

[Huk Finn]

My 160 Halo is surprisingly stable. I don't mind the 153 either.

 

[Wanderer]

My 160 Halo is surprisingly stable. I don't mind the 153 either.

Well, the Halo's actually a stable driver, right?...maybe even slightly overstable. I don't know that the King really is, even in normal weights.

 

[Huk Finn]

Well, the Halo's actually a stable driver, right?...maybe even slightly overstable. I don't know that the King really is, even in normal weights.

You're right, I was off topic about the King. Just a general comment on AIR. My Air King loves to turn.

I'm looking forward to a 160 Air Giant next year though.

 

[mojorisin35]

Air Bolts more stable than Air Kings? That is scary for the King! I can't use the Air Bolt...I have two at 157g(red), normal dome too, but even in calm conditions it still tracks right too far. Not an OAT issue, I throw mostly hyzer-flip and only occasionally flat with more stable drivers or if I want to minimize fade.

I am sure ManU and myself would take those bolts of your hands. Shipping would be to Canada for both.

I think we are saying the opposite actually I found the air king to be more stable than my first run Opto bolt. I can hyzer flip the air king and it stands up nice and goes.

ManU-I remember the rim of the king to be wider than the bolt but wide rimmed drivers don't bother me that much.

Huk I have a halo on the way i am hoping it will replace the 150 blizzard boss in my bag now.

 

[mojorisin35]

You're right, I was off topic about the King. Just a general comment on AIR. My Air King loves to turn.

I'm looking forward to a 160 Air Giant next year though.

I have a 164 giant and it is money, I would love to try out a 150g giant that thing would bomb! I am also completely stoked on the air swords...simply WOW!
Gary

 

[Wanderer]

I have a 164 giant and it is money, I would love to try out a 150g giant that thing would bomb! I am also completely stoked on the air swords...simply WOW!
Gary

Got it on the King, sorry. Air Swords are out already?

 

[Huk Finn]

164 Giant? That's lightest I've heard of. I gotta hunt for some. Where they at?