Lyme disease

[d11rok]

You can barely see a small deer tick even when it's in plain sight on your arm, let alone your bunghole.

Indeed, deer ticks are challenging to find, but they typically go for the easiest place on the body to latch on to. They typically don't travel much unless poor blood flow at the initial site is had. I agree, the best way is to use repellent, but it is not entirely necessary if an excellent tick check is had. Also, the best way to not get a tick in your bungholeis to not shove tall grass and weeds in there to begin with

lots of people don't get the rash

Indeed, the rate of rash reporting is variable and likely depends on the vigilance of search as well as place of bite. However, I gather from the best studies that the rate of rash with meaningful disease afterwards is around 75%

 

[Shamis]

So what is going on with John E McCray? It has been reported that he is dealing with a "flare up" of lyme disease but I thought he was treated and recovered several years ago.

I actually messaged him on facebook after I saw his post. I was concerned. If he had lyme for a long time previously, then a flare up could just mean a bout of arthritis, if he didn't then I suspect he actually got re-infected and should take antibiotics again, but I don't know what he's doing about it.

There is something that seem to happen in people who had lyme for a long time before being treated with antibiotics. From what I've read it seems to trigger some kind of auto-immune syndrome that leads to arthritis and other issues that can persist long term. The only point in saying there is no "chronic" lyme is that the bacteria doesn't persist chronically. If you take the antibiotics as prescribed (and be aware of it's interactions with certain things like calcium), then it will kill the bacteria. The quack docs keep people on antibiotics forever basically and that is very unhealthy and useless. I think in most cases, people who suffer chronic symptoms just need to see a rheumatologist, or need to investigate the possibility of re-infection.

long story short, symptoms can persist, but the bacteria doesn't.

 

[justin]

...long story short, symptoms can persist, but the bacteria doesn't.

Exactly. I got hit with lyme disease a few years ago (picked it up in High Bridge, WI). My infectious disease specialist back in Boston told me that so long as I went though the doxycycline as prescribed (and did not get reinfected of course) that I would not have a recurrence. She said that virtually everyone with a recurrence either never got treated or did not get treated properly and that there is a lot of information out there that I should get ready to correct people about when they tell me I would never really be rid of lyme. Boy was she right. I still have friends asking if it's come back and I correct them everytime.

All that said, if you think you have been exposed to a tick call your doctor and they will give you a prescription for just a couple doses of doxycycline (or whatever they prefer). It's just a pill and it's not going to knock you on your rear or anything. If you take those doses within 2 or 3 days of tick exposure you'll be fine. My case was a full week after exposure so I had something like 10 days of meds and extreme headaches and sensitivity to lifting or turning my head. It was horrible. Don't screw around with ticks.

 

[McCready]

Bumping this thread as the Ricky Lyme thread was locked.

Recently listened to this podcast which is loaded with good information:
https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/this-podcast-will-kill-you/id1299915173?i=1000448427954

I was surprised to learn that the disease is basically a non-event if you catch it early with antibiotics. Left untreated though, yikes. We frolfers need to be ever vigilant of the presence of ticks, the early symptoms of Lyme, and the necessity to go to the doctor immediately when the disease is suspected.

 

[Dr.Smooth]

Generally, what are the tell tale symptoms?

I know like every health ailment that it will differ a bit.

But having a list is helpful, that way you know when to go the doctor.

 

[Jimb]

My experience seems to differ from most others pretty drastically. Sorry for the long post.

I never found a tic on me and never found anything that I could identify as a bite mark.

My only symptom was crazy, itchy skin all over my body. I'm typically not a "scratcher" but this was nuts. My arms, legs, and torso were the worst. I scratched my shins and ankles to the point of bleeding.

I went to the dermatologist who identified it as a skin issue. I had to take a 15 minute bath, twice daily, submerging as much of my body as possible. No showers were allowed. Then had to apply a thick lotion and thick prescription cream. This was prescribed indefinitely. It do no good after at least a week. Almost as an after thought, the doc said "And let's do a blood test for Lyme disease."

I got the test and the dermatologist confirmed it was Lyme a couple weeks after my appointment. I think I had a ten day run of antibiotics. After just two days the itching went away.

I saw my regular doc about a week later. When he looked at the blood test results his eyes kind of popped out and his jaw dropped... not the reaction you want to see when your doc is reviewing test results.

He said they test for 15 active antibodies and that something like 3-5 positive results confirms Lyme disease. ALL 15 of mine were positive. He had never seen anything like it.

Anyway, after all of that... I've never had any other symptoms. Crazy stuff. Oddly, it seems that I had probably been bitten 3 weeks or so before treatment. I was very fortunate.l that this was apparently early enough in my case.

 

[armiller]

It does seem like Lyme is spreading to new areas where it wasn't previously endemic. I got it this spring in West Virginia. Mine also didn't occur after a known tick bite, though I was on a course where I have had ticks before. I thought it was even just a cellulitis from a thorn or something like that. I did not have the characteristic "bullseye" rash or "erythema migrans."

A doc put me on a standard antibiotic to cover possible skin infection but without coverage for Lyme. Things got better for a few days, but I then had some strange hip and lower back pain severe enough that I couldn't sleep for a few nights in a row. This was something called a "sensory radicular neuropathy," where the bacteria causes inflammation or outright infection in a sensory nerve connecting spin to the skin (for me it was inner thigh near my knee). The Lyme testing Jimb mentioned came back positive for me too. I took 21 days of antibiotics and haven't had any issues.

Testing for Lyme disease is not always straight forward. Especially after being exposed once, the testing will probably stay positive long term. You can still get reinfected. Fortunately, the antibiotics used for standard treatment are pretty easy to take and can take care of the second infection.

Generally, what are the tell tale symptoms?

I know like every health ailment that it will differ a bit.

But having a list is helpful, that way you know when to go the doctor.

Here's a decent website from the CDC with signs and symptoms.

 

[Therealgoat]

It's a shame to have to worry about them as much as we do these days. I never did as a kid, but they've traveled north for years and years, and they've moved up through the north and even into Canada, surviving winters. I read an article about a guy doing research on them, he counted 140,000 ticks on a single moose. They bleed them to death. If you see an animal with patchy fur/skin, it's just as likely to be they were trying to rub the ticks off against a tree.

Treat you shoes. Treat your bag. Treat a pair of tall white socks and maybe a pair of paints or shorts you typically play in. Check yourself after your round, BEFORE you get in your car. Shower when you get home. Take symptoms seriously. Get tested. Get antibiotics. Urgent Care facilities are a much cheaper option than ER visits if you can't get into your regular doctor quickly.

Poison Ivy used to be my biggest worry when trouncing through the woods, it's taken a backseat to ticks, for sure.

 

[robdeforge]

Yikes, another 4-5 weeks left for a certain somebody to "fully recover". That'll make it ~2.5 months after supposed detection

Take your antibiotics kids!

 

[da Crippler]

Lyme disease has been around for thousands of years. Otzi the 5300 year old mummy found in the Alps a few years ago had it.

 

[rhatton1]

This may seem a stupid question but I cam't find the answer.

How do you do an effective Tick search?

I don't even really know what I'm looking for as stupid as it sounds, I'm not sure I've ever seen a tick. I'm designing courses in remote areas all over the country populated by deer and am sure to pick up some ticks along the way. Apparently tick borne encephalitis is now here in the UK too which is great. If I had a tick I'm not sure how/If I would identify it? Are they obvious? I've got hairy legs and other hairy areas, do you spot them easily in those areas or am I going to have to drop and bend in front of my wife for a thorough check every time I get home (I'm not sure our marriage will survive!)

So the question, how do you perform a tick check? How do you make sure you haven't missed one? If I have a bath/shower will they come off if they haven't attached yet?

 

[Deej]

This may seem a stupid question but I cam't find the answer.

How do you do an effective Tick search?

I don't even really know what I'm looking for as stupid as it sounds, I'm not sure I've ever seen a tick. I'm designing courses in remote areas all over the country populated by deer and am sure to pick up some ticks along the way. Apparently tick borne encephalitis is now here in the UK too which is great. If I had a tick I'm not sure how/If I would identify it? Are they obvious? I've got hairy legs and other hairy areas, do you spot them easily in those areas or am I going to have to drop and bend in front of my wife for a thorough check every time I get home (I'm not sure our marriage will survive!)

So the question, how do you perform a tick check? How do you make sure you haven't missed one? If I have a bath/shower will they come off if they haven't attached yet?

I get the wife to look at ALL of the areas that I can't see closely on my own.

 

[ejvogie]

This may seem a stupid question but I cam't find the answer.

How do you do an effective Tick search?

I don't even really know what I'm looking for as stupid as it sounds, I'm not sure I've ever seen a tick. I'm designing courses in remote areas all over the country populated by deer and am sure to pick up some ticks along the way. Apparently tick borne encephalitis is now here in the UK too which is great. If I had a tick I'm not sure how/If I would identify it? Are they obvious? I've got hairy legs and other hairy areas, do you spot them easily in those areas or am I going to have to drop and bend in front of my wife for a thorough check every time I get home (I'm not sure our marriage will survive!)

So the question, how do you perform a tick check? How do you make sure you haven't missed one? If I have a bath/shower will they come off if they haven't attached yet?

 

[Armus Patheticus]

I usually feel ticks crawling before I see them. Unless they are larva (you don't need to worry about larva) you can usually spot them easily. If they reach your head they're easy to miss.

Lyme can be a real problem but ticks aren't quite as terrifying as some seem to believe. If you're outside often in areas with a tick population, especially off trail or in weeds or leaf litter, you will get ticks on you. Some of them will bite you. You can worry about this as little or as much as you want and the practical results will probably be the same. I have been bitten hundreds of times and will be bitten hundreds more. I simply do my best to avoid leaving them attached, remember the symptoms of serious illness, and don't worry about it.

I also suspect (not know) that lyme is overdiagnosed.

 

[Shamis]

I usually feel ticks crawling before I see them. Unless they are larva (you don't need to worry about larva) you can usually spot them easily. If they reach your head they're easy to miss.

Lyme can be a real problem but ticks aren't quite as terrifying as some seem to believe. If you're outside often in areas with a tick population, especially off trail or in weeds or leaf litter, you will get ticks on you. Some of them will bite you. You can worry about this as little or as much as you want and the practical results will probably be the same. I have been bitten hundreds of times and will be bitten hundreds more. I simply do my best to avoid leaving them attached, remember the symptoms of serious illness, and don't worry about it.

I also suspect (not know) that lyme is overdiagnosed.

You're lucky you don't live in the northeast. Around here the most common ticks are deer ticks and dog ticks. Out of the deer ticks, about 30% of them carry lyme (see ticklab.org). So based on your numbers you'd almost certainly have gotten it by now. But it's pretty rare in Ohio/Kentucky.

 

[Armus Patheticus]

You're lucky you don't live in the northeast. Around here the most common ticks are deer ticks and dog ticks. Out of the deer ticks, about 30% of them carry lyme (see ticklab.org). So based on your numbers you'd almost certainly have gotten it by now. But it's pretty rare in Ohio/Kentucky.

I don't know much about where Lyme is or isn't but I do know deer ticks from dog ticks and have been bitten often by both, including in Pennsylvania, Vermont, and Maine. Perhaps I should have been or have been infected by now, but I don't think so.

My point is not that Lyme isn't real or serious but that yanking the suckers off and maintaining a calm and accurate and reasonable awareness of risk and symptoms seems adequate. I don't care for overreaction.

 

[hiflyer]

I don't know much about where Lyme is or isn't but I do know deer ticks from dog ticks and have been bitten often by both, including in Pennsylvania, Vermont, and Maine. Perhaps I should have been or have been infected by now, but I don't think so.

My point is not that Lyme isn't real or serious but that yanking the suckers off and maintaining a calm and accurate and reasonable awareness of risk and symptoms seems adequate. I don't care for overreaction.

Pretty sure youre not supposed to "yank" them off. Those little buggers burrow their heads in. When you "yank" them off, usually their heads stay behind. Causing more problems than just Lyme.

And you're wrong, Lyme IS real AND serious.

 

[Armus Patheticus]

And you're wrong, Lyme IS real AND serious.

Read it again brotherman

 

[hiflyer]

Read it again brotherman

Ok. I stand corrected.
The use of double negatives makes me want to post in the irrational upsetness thread.

 

[Armus Patheticus]

Ok. I stand corrected.
The use of double negatives makes me want to post in the irrational upsetness thread.

"Never leave I love you left unsaid"

What do you make of this line from a recent "country" "music" production?