MA1 for Worlds is FULL!!!

[notroman]

I know I have a low rating to be playing open, but that isn't what I based my decision on. It was the fact that it was my time to step aside and let the other AMs get a crack at winning.
I realized there were tournaments that I was playing crappy in, and still finishing in the top 5. There is something wrong with that. You should have to play well to earn your spot in the cash. Plus, I realized that with many of those poor finishes would have put me in the bottom cash in open. Therefore, I would be getting my money back.
Now, I am far more satisfied and proud of myself finishing last cash in open, then I was winning advanced (with the exception of my first win).
Last point. I got way too many discs that I was never going to use.

You're in Arizona, though. It seems like a lot of the AZ players move to open soon to let other 930-some players have a chance at winning Advanced. The reason behind it I think is because a lot of tournaments in Arizona only have Open, Advanced, and Intermediate divisions. All the Novice and Recreational level players end up playing Intermediate, so those with a conscience move up early to Advanced. All the Intermediate players moving up make the Advanced players with a conscience move up to Open. Those that choose to stay in their division and not move up end up being peer pressured by others to move up.

I never understood people that run tournaments that way, but to each his own. I would never move to open if I was a 960-something rated player here in Illinois. That's just asking to donate your money to the higher rated pros.

I guess the local open field has a lot to do with the decision to move up to open as well. There are enough 980-990 rated pros here that people with a 960 rating would be dumb to move up. If someone with a 970 rating plays Advanced here, that is normal. If that happens in Arizona they are called baggers. There are a lot of 970-990 rated ams in Charlotte. Here in Illinois they'd be called baggers. In the Charlotte area there are a lot of strong 1000+ rated players in the open field that keep the 970-990 rated players from moving up.

 

[The Hammer]

To address the point that these baggers are going to have a hard time winning in open......who cares, and grow some balls. Did you move up from intermediate and start winning right away, probably not. You had to work at it, and improve. When you finally got that first cash, or win, it probably felt awesome. Right? You put in the work, played well, and you got your prize. Why shouldn't that apply to open.
You guys want to go into a tournament and finish in the top 5 regardless of how well you played. You want to be rewarded for playing like crap, and that is BS. Step up, take your lumps, learn from it, improve, and earn your reward.

 

[The Hammer]

You're in Arizona, though. It seems like a lot of the AZ players move to open soon to let other 930-some players have a chance at winning Advanced. The reason behind it I think is because a lot of tournaments in Arizona only have Open, Advanced, and Intermediate divisions. All the Novice and Recreational level players end up playing Intermediate, so those with a conscience move up early to Advanced. All the Intermediate players moving up make the Advanced players with a conscience move up to Open. Those that choose to stay in their division and not move up end up being peer pressured by others to move up.

I never understood people that run tournaments that way, but to each his own. I would never move to open if I was a 960-something rated player here in Illinois. That's just asking to donate your money to the higher rated pros.

I guess the local open field has a lot to do with the decision to move up to open as well. There are enough 980-990 rated pros here that people with a 960 rating would be dumb to move up. If someone with a 970 rating plays Advanced here, that is normal. If that happens in Arizona they are called baggers. There are a lot of 970-990 rated ams in Charlotte. Here in Illinois they'd be called baggers. In the Charlotte area there are a lot of strong 1000+ rated players in the open field that keep the 970-990 rated players from moving up.

You're supporting my point that these guys are scared of competing against 1000+ rated pros. Therefore, they hide in advanced.

Also, I think the ratings here are artificially depressed. When we have big tournaments, where higher rated guys come to town, our round ratings are way higher. Also, I see when our locals travel, their round ratings are much higher. Take a look at my ratings at The Memorial. I averaged around 990, and I played like crap.

 

[notroman]

Why should they be made to compete against 1000+ rated players? The PDGA membership for open costs more, the entry fees are higher, and you are essentially locking yourself out from playing all the big AM events. That's a pretty big decision.

Most people seem to top out around 980-990 with their rating. You don't see too many players with jobs and family life cross over 1000. Most of the players with that rating are either gifted or are putting in a lot of time and effort to maintain that level of play, or both. There are people out there that just don't have the time to do that. They have families, they have demanding jobs, you name it. Spending $60 to play an event that you probably won't ever cash in gets old. You decide that it's not for you after a few events? Tough luck. You find that even with practice you can't seem to break the 990 barrier and end up struggling to get last cash? Too bad. You can find yourself stuck in a position to play mediocre golf compared to the rest of the field for years to come. Having a chance at winning is fun, knowing that you probably won't ever win is not fun. This is enough for some to stop playing tournaments.

 

[The Hammer]

Why should they be made to compete against 1000+ rated players? The PDGA membership for open costs more, the entry fees are higher, and you are essentially locking yourself out from playing all the big AM events. That's a pretty big decision.

Most people seem to top out around 980-990 with their rating. You don't see too many players with jobs and family life cross over 1000. Most of the players with that rating are either gifted or are putting in a lot of time and effort to maintain that level of play, or both. There are people out there that just don't have the time to do that. They have families, they have demanding jobs, you name it. Spending $60 to play an event that you probably won't ever cash in gets old. You decide that it's not for you after a few events? Tough luck. You find that even with practice you can't seem to break the 990 barrier and end up struggling to get last cash? Too bad. You can find yourself stuck in a position to play mediocre golf compared to the rest of the field for years to come. Having a chance at winning is fun, knowing that you probably won't ever win is not fun. This is enough for some to stop playing tournaments.

He even said in another thread that if he played his rating, he would usually cash in NC. That means getting his money back for playing average. Being the 990 rated guy when the field is < 970 isn't having a chance to win. That is being expected to win. When you are always the favorite to win, maybe you should be competing against those of similar skill. Its like the bully on the play ground that kids tell to pick on guys his own size. Bad anology.

BTW, I never said they should be forced to do anything. I'm just saying its the respectable thing to do. Kinda like finding money on the ground. You don't have to return it, but its the right thing to do........ok, another bad anology.

 

[The Hammer]

Perhaps I'm in the minority that values respect among my peers and fellow competitors, over winning. Sad

 

[notroman]

I'm just trying to give the benefit of the doubt to other players. I try to see the full picture. I'm like you, I prefer to move up early. I have only won one event in my life, I usually move up before I get a chance to win since I don't care as much about winning. I would much rather see improvement in my own game.

There's no reason a 899 rated player can't be competitive in Rec, or a 934 rated player can't be competitive in Advanced. If the Advanced field is full of 950 and 960 level guys, I can see why a 934 rated player would want to stay in intermediate. If there's a wide range of players all across the AM divisions, and that same 934 rated player still wants to remain in intermediate, I would attribute it to fear or greed.

The move to Open is not the same as the move from Intermediate to Advanced, or from Recreational to Intermediate. The costs are higher and there is almost no going back once you make the jump and take the cash. I'm not going to judge anyone for not wanting to move to Open. If I was 990 rated in Charlotte (or anywhere), I would move up simply for the chance of being on a card with some of the big guns in the area and for the good competition. But that's me. Everyone plays for a different reason.

 

[atl scott]

Did you move up from intermediate and start winning right away, probably not.

After winning my last intermediate event by 20+ strokes (I was probably rated 915 or so) I moved up to advanced and won my first event.

I think you're over-emphasizing the attitude of "move up or be a douche." Here in Charlotte it's fun to have great competition at a high level in advanced. I'm 966 and I prefer to have a few 985+ guys to compete against without having to play pro. It's fun. It's also not pro by any stretch.

 

[Garrett76zt]

To address the point that these baggers are going to have a hard time winning in open......who cares, and grow some balls. Did you move up from intermediate and start winning right away, probably not. You had to work at it, and improve. When you finally got that first cash, or win, it probably felt awesome. Right? You put in the work, played well, and you got your prize. Why shouldn't that apply to open.
You guys want to go into a tournament and finish in the top 5 regardless of how well you played. You want to be rewarded for playing like crap, and that is BS. Step up, take your lumps, learn from it, improve, and earn your reward.

Talk about beating a dead horse. The PDGA enforces a ratings cap on other am divisions to prevent "bagging". Advanced is the TOP division for an amateur. The best amateur competition. I think its funny why people like you think players should move to pro. Saying that high rated MA1 players should go pro to give others a chance to win, lol. Boo hoo. If you're not winning get better or move back down to a division you can compete in. I have great respect for the game and the spirit of sportsmanship but tournaments are about WINNING. Its important to learn how to win. If some MA1 player is smashing every tourney he plays in then good for him! The reality is that he is probably passing up alot of cash he could be winning in pro. But if that's what floats his boat then party on.

Seriously, if the player is THAT good they will find their way into the PRO division. Its not like we have 1020 rated ams who just love to gobble up all your plastic every weekend. Please show me ONE MA1 player that is winning all their tournaments. I've played with most all of the top ams in the country and nobody is dominating. The closest thing to the situation you describe is when Wiggins was playing Am. He had an agenda, a set of goals he wanted to accomplish before he moved up. Good for him, he accomplished what he set out to do. Why on earth would you or anyone else have a problem with that or any other player's goals?

 

[MrRaider]

My reasons:

1. I am not happy with my consistency, it is my choice to decide whether playing with pros (for the first round) then basically playing against advanced players for following rounds will help with that.

2. I don't agree with the pro payout structure of 100% or more. I think that it robs from the growth of the sport.

3. I play for fun. I don't care about playing bad against lower rated players. Rec to Int to ADV to Open are all different levels of seriousness. I don't care for the tone of disc golf when real money is on the line. It doesnt change my focus me, but it just makes the DG less fun when everyone is so uptight and were I to go Pro I would go to less events. It has nothing to do with wanting to win or knowing I will win. I actually go into every event hoping to finish in the top 25%

4. My skills were not "given" to me. Im not 983 because of some freakish athletic ability. I play smart and consistent. There are many players that are rated lower that putt better, throw farther and more accurately, and have a wider range of shots at their disposal but make poor decisions. I should not be forced to move up because of some number. Yea, maybe im a 1%'er disc golfer. Well go out, practice, and make decisions that card you a par instead of double bogey and you will too. Don't try to take from me because you are stuck. I don't owe any 940 rated disc golfer anything... and when one beats me by 15 strokes at Bowling Green they don't owe me anything either. I don't get to cry that the 925 rated golfer that beat me should have been intermediate.

BAGGER!!! LOL watch we will be on the same card

 

[Garrett76zt]

After winning my last intermediate event by 20+ strokes (I was probably rated 915 or so) I moved up to advanced and won my first event.

Nice, same here! I played 5 MA2 events before I was forced to move up and won my first Advanced tourney.

Glad I didn't move up to pro after that considering I still haven't broken the 970 barrier, lol.

 

[MrRaider]

Perhaps I'm in the minority that values respect among my peers and fellow competitors, over winning. Sad

Preach it!!! i respect what you have said and that you are playin up and not stayin still and being a perma Am

 

[atl scott]

Perhaps I'm in the minority that values respect among my peers and fellow competitors, over winning. Sad

Come to Charlotte and enjoy being DFL in pro every tourney. How is that gaining any respect? Just sayin'.

 

[Garrett76zt]

I can respect you while beating you in a tournament. Can you not respect ME when I beat you in a tournament?

There is plenty of good sportsmanship in our game. All the top Am players I know that you guys are harping on are both very good players and very good people. Most of them are respectful and take good sportsmanship seriously. That's not the issue here.

Here is the reality of the situation. No one is forcing MA1 players to start playing professionally and that's not going to change. That makes it a competitive division. STOP complaining and start competing! Don't worry about them, worry about you. How does worrying about someone else and complaining about their play have anything to do with respect or sportsmanship?

 

[The Ox]

Come to Charlotte and enjoy being DFL in pro every tourney. How is that gaining any respect? Just sayin'.

:hfive:

 

[gcrussell4]

What you arrogant NC players are failing to realize is that just because you have to play well to cash in advanced/cash in pro doesn't mean that the top half of your advanced fields shouldn't be playing pro. If you had the borderline guys who are successful in advanced consistently moving up, then 980 golf would be plenty to cash in pro. The only reason that it is so hard to cash is because you guys are all twiddling your thumbs in advanced. I just find it annoying that every other post from an NC guy is, "Well if you lived here, you would get a taste of just how tough it is." Yeah, we get it. You have nice courses. You are good players. Your tournaments are all perfect. Did you ever consider the fact that maybe your local pros might actually like to play in a pro field of more than 10 people?

Wow, talk about sour grapes. Not usually an angry poster, but for some reason this thread has just gotten under my skin.

 

[digital]

^^^ awesome generalization of your typical nc disc golfer. ha.

 

[atl scott]

What you arrogant NC players are failing to realize is that just because you have to play well to cash in advanced/cash in pro doesn't mean that the top half of your advanced fields shouldn't be playing pro. If you had the borderline guys who are successful in advanced consistently moving up, then 980 golf would be plenty to cash in pro. The only reason that it is so hard to cash is because you guys are all twiddling your thumbs in advanced. I just find it annoying that every other post from an NC guy is, "Well if you lived here, you would get a taste of just how tough it is." Yeah, we get it. You have nice courses. You are good players. Your tournaments are all perfect. Did you ever consider the fact that maybe your local pros might actually like to play in a pro field of more than 10 people?

Wow, talk about sour grapes. Not usually an angry poster, but for some reason this thread has just gotten under my skin.

Don't take life so seriously. :thmbup:

My post was mostly joking based on the vitriol coming out of the 965 rated "pro" bashing other people's decisions to play am for the time being. It was intended to help him realize that things aren't necessarily the same where he is and where everyone else is. Sounds like he's made the correct decision but that doesn't make the rest of us "cowards" or what-not.

I enjoy playing where I'm at. That's all I care about.

 

[Garrett76zt]

What you arrogant NC players are failing to realize is that just because you have to play well to cash in advanced/cash in pro doesn't mean that the top half of your advanced fields shouldn't be playing pro. If you had the borderline guys who are successful in advanced consistently moving up, then 980 golf would be plenty to cash in pro. The only reason that it is so hard to cash is because you guys are all twiddling your thumbs in advanced. I just find it annoying that every other post from an NC guy is, "Well if you lived here, you would get a taste of just how tough it is." Yeah, we get it. You have nice courses. You are good players. Your tournaments are all perfect. Did you ever consider the fact that maybe your local pros might actually like to play in a pro field of more than 10 people?
reason this thread has just gotten under my skin.

Wow I'm torn! Not sure I agree with your thoughts on moving up. But I have had a similar feeling towards Charlotte bragging on itself.

For what its worth, the Charlotte guys I've become friends with are good guys and good golfers.

 

[gcrussell4]

I enjoy playing where I'm at. That's all I care about.

And that is certainly the most important thing--I am in the same boat. Sorry for whiney post, just annoys me to hear about how tough things are out there for people to move up when the reality is that it could all be solved by a big group of people all committing to move up together. As is (from my observations from a computer screen mind you), it looks like almost no one ever moves up as the pro field has been generally the same few cats for quite a few years. Seems like it is time for a shake up.

As for the generalizations, obviously not everyone is in the same boat. Sorry my vitriol was so clearly in the way of me making any kind of a real point.