Memorial Drama

[joshmo65]

The mental game is part of your score. So small penalties not directly produced from your throws reflect that. Your rating indicates that the scores for some players will occasionally include dumb stuff. But I agree that penalties like par+4 on holes for being late may not reflect a player's throwing prowess. So that's why we drop rounds that are more than 2.5 standard deviations below their rating.

I could buy that.

 

[Scoot_er]

The mental game is part of your score. So small penalties not directly produced from your throws reflect that. Your rating indicates that the scores for some players will occasionally include dumb stuff. But I agree that penalties like par+4 on holes for being late may not reflect a player's throwing prowess. So that's why we drop rounds that are more than 2.5 standard deviations below their rating.

Too bad for a guy who misses 3 holes and shoots well enough to get within 2.5 SDs. We had a guy do this at my first tournament this year. Pretty sure he shot like a 960 round....after playing 15 holes of 1040+ golf.

 

[Pwingles]

It's really important and obvious for people to realize that the "drama" comes from a PDGA tournament technicality. The PDGA needs to re-evaluate arbitrary stroke violations like this. Not all stroke violations are unreasonable, but this particular stroke violation is. Every single PDGA rule should be written and enforced with the intent of guaranteeing accurate and fair tournament results. Instead of unfair stroke violations that could very possibly lead to inaccurate tournament results, they should embrace an alternate penalty structure for non-play related infractions.

For example, Will should have been fined $25 for not writing his total down. $25 for the PDGA and the whole tournament isn't put on the line because of something that isn't related to how he performed.

This

You are required to add up and verify your score, its not that hard to do.

Also this lol

 

[DavidSauls]

Such penalty strokes may adversely affect an individual round rating, but if a player gets enough to significantly affect his player rating, he's got issues.

*

Certainly happy to see Will's sportsmanship in taking responsibility for his mistake.

 

[apparition]

I agree with everyone's replies regarding the importance of accurate score-keeping and ease of doing so, but the penalty should match the infraction. If McBeth ended up winning the tournament the results would accurately represent the technical aspect of scorekeeping, but not the performance of the competitors. Therefore, the penalty does not match the infraction. What's more important to the PDGA: performance or scorekeeping? This infraction should not result in a stroke violation because it would emphasize scorekeeping over performance.

So, specifically, MJ, DavidSauls, Big Sky, and all the others: do you really believe the stroke penalty matches Schusterick's scorekeeping mistake? Come on.

 

[JC17393]

I agree with everyone's replies regarding the importance of accurate score-keeping and ease of doing so, but the penalty should match the infraction. If McBeth ended up winning the tournament the results would accurately represent the technical aspect of scorekeeping, but not the performance of the competitors. Therefore, the penalty does not match the infraction. What's more important to the PDGA: performance or scorekeeping? This infraction should not result in a stroke violation because it would emphasize scorekeeping over performance.

So, specifically, MJ, DavidSauls, Big Sky, and all the others: do you really believe the stroke penalty matches Schusterick's scorekeeping mistake? Come on.

The answer is both because scorekeeping is part of performance in this game. Yes, I believe the penalty matches the infraction. And I don't think the fact that it is a two-stroke penalty would be at issue for anyone if Will was leading by three at the end of play.

 

[BgWvDave]

I agree with everyone's replies regarding the importance of accurate score-keeping and ease of doing so, but the penalty should match the infraction. If McBeth ended up winning the tournament the results would accurately represent the technical aspect of scorekeeping, but not the performance of the competitors. Therefore, the penalty does not match the infraction. What's more important to the PDGA: performance or scorekeeping? This infraction should not result in a stroke violation because it would emphasize scorekeeping over performance.

So, specifically, MJ, DavidSauls, Big Sky, and all the others: do you really believe the stroke penalty matches Schusterick's scorekeeping mistake? Come on.

So what is the correct penalty to match this infraction?

 

[apparition]

So what is the correct penalty to match this infraction?

Exactly...

 

[The Hammer]

The penalty is appropriate. TD's have far too much to do without having to worry about without having to take care of golfers scores for them. The penalty should be stiff as to ensure it doesn't happen often. If you can't take care of your own scorecard, you shouldn't be playing tournaments.

 

[apparition]

I don't want to sound like a douche, but bringing the TD into this equation isn't really necessary.

 

[Disc Fiend]

About 45 seconds in to this interview you can see Will and McBeth playing the final hole. Will also talks about the 2-stroke penalty in the interview:

 

[_MTL_]

Regardless of everyones opinion of the rule this doesn't change the fact that it is a rule and that it was broken.

Like it or not, you are currently required to add your scorecard up correctly at the end of each round. As someone who has played as many tournament rounds as Will has, he should know that. It sounds like he owned up to his mistake, however you could easily say that it's easy for him to do this because he won.

To me this ruling is no different than if someone beats you in a sanctioned round but was drinking alcohol or was screaming and threatning people and was stroked for it. The player didn't complete the tournament in concurence with the rules and the penalty was 2 strokes. End of discussion.

 

[Pwingles]

There isn't a good excuse to not total your score. Not even if its your first NT win with your new company

I think even Will would tell you that it was a mental error likely due to the excitement of the win, and that he would never forget to total his score ever again.

This particular incident aside, I think it's silly to penalize strokes after an event, or after your card is done with the final round. There was another theead on DGR awhile back about some dbag who was notorious for being obnoxious. He was DQ'd after the cards were turned in, I believe costing him a 1st place finish.
I feel like situations like that, and this other one, should be handled in a different way. The idea of a fine is not a bad one. I do see problems with it being next to impossible to enforce. I'm not sure ican come up with a better solution though.

 

[apparition]

The player didn't complete the tournament in concurence with the rules and the penalty was 2 strokes. End of discussion.

And it's attitudes like this that will keep the rules from accurately and fairly governing the sport.

Damn, I think I have a problem with authority. I'm gonna chill out about this forum topic for a while and re-evaluate whether I'm actually still mad at my parents...

 

[Pwingles]

Your quote from MTL is totally right though. It's not holdin anything back by knowing how to operate within the current rules.

 

[_MTL_]

And it's attitudes like this that will keep the rules from accurately and fairly governing the sport.

I actually agree that the rule is dumb. I'm just saying that I don't get why this is being discussed.

 

[The Hammer]

I don't want to sound like a douche, but bringing the TD into this equation isn't really necessary.

The penalty is intended to alleviate the responsibility of the TD having to add up scores. That is a necessary argument. Thanks for playing.

 

[mj20300]

I agree with everyone's replies regarding the importance of accurate score-keeping and ease of doing so, but the penalty should match the infraction. If McBeth ended up winning the tournament the results would accurately represent the technical aspect of scorekeeping, but not the performance of the competitors. Therefore, the penalty does not match the infraction. What's more important to the PDGA: performance or scorekeeping? This infraction should not result in a stroke violation because it would emphasize scorekeeping over performance.

So, specifically, MJ, DavidSauls, Big Sky, and all the others: do you really believe the stroke penalty matches Schusterick's scorekeeping mistake? Come on.

Yes i do agree with the penalties. Its not hard to add up your score

 

[The Hammer]

This particular incident aside, I think it's silly to penalize strokes after an event, or after your card is done with the final round. There was another theead on DGR awhile back about some dbag who was notorious for being obnoxious. He was DQ'd after the cards were turned in, I believe costing him a 1st place finish.
I feel like situations like that, and this other one, should be handled in a different way. The idea of a fine is not a bad one. I do see problems with it being next to impossible to enforce. I'm not sure ican come up with a better solution though.

Said dbag should have been expelled from the PDGA for life.

 

[esdubya]

Surrounded by the excited gallery and more excited team prodigy I could see how Will would forget to total up his score AND even more likely a TD willing to 'look the other way'. So my hats off to the TD who enforced the rules consistently across the board.

That said, in the future big tournaments with big galleries should provide the players a roped off or enclosed area to total up scores in peace? Can't be a bad idea when a gallery is involved? Maybe the Memorial had this, I don't know.