Memorial Drama

[DavidSauls]

So, specifically, MJ, DavidSauls, Big Sky, and all the others: do you really believe the stroke penalty matches Schusterick's scorekeeping mistake? Come on.

Yes.

I once suffered this penalty---once is enough to make me diligent forevermore---and have administered it as TD, and it has always seemed appropriate to me.

The timing of his error magnifies it, but it's still the same rules violation, and should have the same penalty.

 

[_MTL_]

That said, in the future big tournaments with big galleries should provide the players a roped off or enclosed area to total up scores in peace? Can't be a bad idea when a gallery is involved? Maybe the Memorial had this, I don't know.

At worlds this year when we (event staff) tried to control the crowds, we were called aholes and dbags.

But no one ever thinks why....

 

[bradharris]

The threat of the penalty has made players significantly more diligent across the board. After every tournament round, I check the scores, double check the scores, and then have someone else check them.

Without the penalty, players would take a far more cavalier attitude. "I think it could be right, but I'll let the TD sort it out."

Mistakes do still happen, usually from honest mistakes. So the penalty seems extreme, but the threat of the penalty has made the life of a TD much easier.

 

[JC17393]

Yes.

I once suffered this penalty---once is enough to make me diligent forevermore---and have administered it as TD, and it has always seemed appropriate to me.

The timing of his error magnifies it, but it's still the same rules violation, and should have the same penalty.

This X 1000. I incurred the 2-stroke penalty only once myself, and it was enough that ten years later I'm still hyper-diligent about my scorecard. Surely it will be the same case for Will. In fact, with the attention this is getting due to the magnitude of the event and situation, I doubt anyone close to him will let him make the same mistake again. "Did you total your card, Will?" is likely to be the most common thing he is asked after every single round he plays this year, if not forever.

 

[Pwingles]

I actually agree that the rule is dumb. I'm just saying that I don't get why this is being discussed.

Thread title, duh

Said dbag should have been expelled from the PDGA for life.

I dont recall the exact scenario, but i think that wouldve been better than stripping someone of a win

The threat of the penalty has made players significantly more diligent across the board. After every tournament round, I check the scores, double check the scores, and then have someone else check them.

Without the penalty, players would take a far more cavalier attitude. "I think it could be right, but I'll let the TD sort it out."

Mistakes do still happen, usually from honest mistakes. So the penalty seems extreme, but the threat of the penalty has made the life of a TD much easier.

I agree

 

[The Hammer]

I dont recall the exact scenario, but i think that wouldve been better than stripping someone of a win

I happen to know the guy. He is a real piece of work. He looks for rule infractions where ever he can. However, if anyone ever calls him on anything, he blows up into a tirade and starts threatening people.

 

[The Hammer]

Surrounded by the excited gallery and more excited team prodigy I could see how Will would forget to total up his score AND even more likely a TD willing to 'look the other way'. So my hats off to the TD who enforced the rules consistently across the board.

That said, in the future big tournaments with big galleries should provide the players a roped off or enclosed area to total up scores in peace? Can't be a bad idea when a gallery is involved? Maybe the Memorial had this, I don't know.

They had a scoring tent.

 

[Halcón]

Watch the vid. He was already totalling his score. It would have taken him 1 second to write down that "43." We wouldn't be talking about this if it didn't almost cost him an NT.

Yes, the penalty is justified.

Skip to the 3:55 mark, or so...

 

[DavidSauls]

I actually agree that the rule is dumb.

All of the possible alternatives I've seen to this rule have even worse effects. Absolving players by having an official scorer, or TDs tally all the scores, is impractical. Making an exception or different rule based on the player/division/tier/money on the line is problematic. DQ would be overly severe.

 

[_MTL_]

All of the possible alternatives I've seen to this rule have even worse effects. Absolving players by having an official scorer, or TDs tally all the scores, is impractical. Making an exception or different rule based on the player/division/tier/money on the line is problematic. DQ would be overly severe.

I just believe it should be a warning for first offense / stroke for 2nd offense within an event type thing.

 

[Pwingles]

I happen to know the guy. He is a real piece of work. He looks for rule infractions where ever he can. However, if anyone ever calls him on anything, he blows up into a tirade and starts threatening people.

Sounds like his rep is accurate. I wouldnt personally feel very good if i were the guy who was in 2nd before he was DQ'd and ended up with a win. Outside of violence or illegal activity, i think a DQ after the cards are in is weak. Ban him from the next event the TD does, or every subsequent event. Report to pdga etc. Idk, i wasnt there, im sure it was bad if he got DQ'd so maybe he deserved it.

 

[The Hammer]

I just believe it should be a warning for first offense / stroke for 2nd offense within an event type thing.

3rd offense = death

 

[mj20300]

At worlds this year when we (event staff) tried to control the crowds, we were called aholes and dbags.

But no one ever thinks why....

Sorry bout yelling at you that much!

 

[Toro71]

It's really important and obvious for people to realize that the "drama" comes from a PDGA tournament technicality. The PDGA needs to re-evaluate arbitrary stroke violations like this. Not all stroke violations are unreasonable, but this particular stroke violation is. Every single PDGA rule should be written and enforced with the intent of guaranteeing accurate and fair tournament results. Instead of unfair stroke violations that could very possibly lead to inaccurate tournament results, they should embrace an alternate penalty structure for non-play related infractions.

For example, Will should have been fined $25 for not writing his total down. $25 for the PDGA and the whole tournament isn't put on the line because of something that isn't related to how he performed.

So, honest question, but wouldn't a rule requiring turning in an accurate score card be exactly this?

The problem with a fixed monetary fine like this is, it penalizes a guy in the middle of the pack, or say an Am, more than a guy that's in the top 3, or an elite open player. What's $25 to somebody that's about to take down $2k or more? A jerk might just say it's worth $25 to let someone else do his/her math.

I dig where you're coming from, it can be harsh having minor violations change the outcome. You have to have that, though, in a game that's by and large officiated by the players themselves.

Plus, this is like rule 1 of tourney golf. The round ain't over until the card's in. Failing to insure one's own score is turned in correctly is a mental game error on par with pulling and throwing the wrong disc. So, so easy to avoid.

 

[TimSyl]

It's a rule. If someone can't add numbers together totalling 40-60, and write it on the scorecard like EVERYONE ELSE, perhaps they should go back to school.

 

[throwfromthewoods]

The thing is, it was an infraction. It was assessed because a player did not follow the rules of PDGA play. Stupid, maybe. But if you don't do anything wrong, you never have to worry about consequences.

It's like when people call me because my company charges $25.00 late fees. And they think it's ridiculous. Maybe it is, but it doesn't matter if the late fee is $2.00 or $25.00 if you pay your bill on time like you're supposed to.

It's also not one of those judgement call rules, like the tuck rule in the NFL. It's a black and white situation that every player is well aware of.

I mean, that might be a hardass way to look at it. But you kind of have to be objective. Subjectivity would breed all sorts of complications.

 

[_MTL_]

Sorry bout yelling at you that much!

hahah you were one of the only 4 people in the entire crowd I cared about.

 

[ejvogie]

Never mind.

 

[Bobby_B5932]

You are required to add up and verify your score, its not that hard to do.

Exactly! The two strokes is not unfair at all.

 

[throwfromthewoods]

It's a rule. If someone can't add numbers together totalling 40-60, and write it on the scorecard like EVERYONE ELSE, perhaps they should go back to school.

Or, in McBeth's case, 39.