Movement in top 10

[elmexdela]

The most amazing fact about Caliber reviews to me is 35 played and 20 reviews. Compare this with 134 played and 23 reviews for Jarva, and 271 played and 22 reviews for Hawk Hollow.

I believe this speaks volumes about how much we appreciate the course and the Stiller family.

yeah thats great and warms the heart and it doesnt translate to a quality course

ive played a handful of private and not listed on dgcr/udisc courses where you could tell the person/family put in tons of work/maintenance and were friendly and welcoming and the course was still lackluster

does the appreciation i have for a course being there and maintenance and for the friendly family really justify a 5/5

 

[thrembo]

Maybe we need one more filter. Just "The Valkyrie Kids" review of the course.

 

[Skins]

You're right. I must have had another filter on when I was sorting.

Only six of the 20 reviews are from people who've reviewed five or more courses. That's still a high drive-by percentage.

So DiscGolfCraig, it's a logical fallacy akin to the straw man argument to say that because people who have not reviewed before, don't know what they are talking about. Just the same a saying because a person has 50 reviews does know what they are talking about.

Many of the folks that have reviewed Caliber are from out of state. Ive had folks in from 20 or so different states this past summer just to play this course. Groups from Salt Lake, Boise, Portland, Seattle, Pocatello, Missoula, Libby, Kallispell, Tricities (WA), and Bend have come twice to visit because they enjoyed it so much.

Honestly, it's pretty conceited to think a first time reviewer lacks experience. There are some very seasoned players out there who are very articulate and intelligent that you do not know about. Many of those folks have never felt the drive to review, just like some players do.

The guy who gave me a 3, for example, is a total fraud. He came to league play last summer, there were roughly 40 there that day. He was approximately 23 years old, been playing 1.5 years. My shop was in disarray with some used discs in the back in a box somewhere. He wanted my attention to search through them, I helped the best I could. He got frustrated because I couldn't find for him what he didn't even know he wanted. I did my best. He shot 89 or 92 or something, lost a disc or two and split not in a great mood. So he goes and gives me a 3 to spite me, gives other courses in the area a 4 that are far lesser of venues.

Here's the fraudulent part, he stated at the time of his review that he'd been playing for 23.5 years, when he was actually only 23.5 years old. Tried to make himself look like a big shot when the opposite was true.

Moral of the story, don't judge a book by its cover. Some of those first time reviewers would take your lunch money 5 days a week on any course and are very good, "well read" players who know exactly what the hell they are talking about, just never felt the need to review before.

 

[chevis]

I think that's why elmex is skeptical. That's a crazy ratio. Like others have said, it'll fall in line with more reviews. Like they all do. It's crowded at the top. I was really excited to play Harmony Bends this past July. Number 1 course on DGCR!!! I gave it a 4.5 and it was suddenly #4 the next day

It'll average itself out. It always does. For what it's worth, I'm really trying to find a way to play this one. And when I do and give it my usual 4.5, I'll drop it out of the top 100

do you not believe in perfection?... or are you still waiting for that course that finally gets that one 5 you're saving for the greatest course ever?.. or do you just like to see movement in the top 10?

the problem with the top 10 is you go there with expectations so high it would take perfection to live up to what you want. then after you play, it was good, but didn't live up to what you had in your mind & so you feel let down. that feeling then goes into your review & the 5 is not achievable, though it may be deserved if not for your expectations.

 

[biscoe]

I have to be the only course owner ever to be happy to see their course out of the top 10. When I was spending time on Hawk Hollow it was thoroughly deserving of its spot but it hasn't deserved it for years at this point (although I am pretty sure it is better than roughly half the current top 10 based on topography alone). Having been in and out of the top 10 a couple times there is a definite uptick in traffic when in there which was never really one of my goals for it. If there were potential to profit financially from being on the list then I would be trying hard to be on it but that is not the case at HH which has always been and shall remain farm first, disc golf second. YMMV.

 

[Jah Plastifari]

Maybe we need one more filter. Just "The Valkyrie Kids" review of the course.

I think this isn't a bad idea. Read the Cons of TVK's review, the course almost killed him, it really isn't suited for rec players like the front page says, and it's in an out of the way location. I'm missing it if there is something there that gives any indication this is not a quality course.

 

[Skins]

Another FYI I'd like to add about the reviewers.

Not one are my family or extended relatives in Ohio Have reviewed this course. I've got about 100 relatives back there, lost count really, embarrassed when at reunions because I'm forgetting some of there names and they are my first cousins�� Many of them have asked if they could review the course and I said HELL NO because you don't even play disc AND you've never seen the course. It would be terribly disingenuous to do that. They understood that because most of them are golfers and know the golf Gods are watching. Best to not piss them off.

I never built this course with a number in mind.

 

[brentjacobs]

...the problem with the top 10 is you go there with expectations so high it would take perfection to live up to what you want. then after you play, it was good, but didn't live up to what you had in your mind & so you feel let down. that feeling then goes into your review & the 5 is not achievable, though it may be deserved if not for your expectations.

I feel this sentiment about the top 10 except I'm always expecting some level of let down. They say with age comes wisdom but I think my genes gave me cynicism(or maybe it's wise to be cynical?). Ive been disappointed by top 10 courses and totally floored by courses with few reviews that I'd just barely heard of. To me, all 5 of the the top 10 I've played are solid to strong 4.5's. None of them left me saying, "Yep, that was the best of the best". And while I've never given a 5/5 review, I'm certainly not opposed like some folks are.

But to the point, I think you're right, people expect the Top 10 to be the best of the best. So this makes it hard as everyone has such different tastes for what truly puts a course over the top. Most of us here that care spend a good bit of time and money on traveling to play disc golf. Any bagger worth a damn spends time doing as good of research as they can so we aren't let down. It's not hard, once you've been at it for little while, to find good info out there and ignore the noise.

In the end, if you're going to be let down by a 4.5/5 course because you thought you were going to a 5/5 course, maybe you're in the wrong game. I know I've adjusted my expectations over the years and I've certainly enjoyed my travels much more because of it. My travel group and I certainly watch the top 10 but it sure as heck isn't taken as gospel. We like to joke about course that holds the #1 slot being "The best course in the known universe". As we've seen, 4.5/5 reviews shuffle things around, reviews with no substance count, an so on. The list is fun for novelty and highlighting some great courses, but lets take it with a grain of salt like the reasonable adults were supposed to be.

 

[Jukeshoe]

I believe in using the full granularity of the rating scale.

I also believe in returning the love and rewarding beautiful courses with 5-disc reviews.

 

[mndiscg]

can anyone on here remind me again of the mn top 10 history

i think as i started dg brp was in top 3 or 5 and bryant lake was on the top 10 list too

or am i making stuff up

Since nobody else answered your question, yes, Bryant Lake was also in the top 10 with BRP.

Both courses are a lot of fun and both are well cared for courses. Both are deserving of high ratings but neither really have the topography to be top 10 now.

 

[elmexdela]

Since nobody else answered your question, yes, Bryant Lake was also in the top 10 with BRP.

Both courses are a lot of fun and both are well cared for courses. Both are deserving of high ratings but neither really have the topography to be top 10 now.

within what you can remember has there been any other mn courses in the top 10 or even top 25

 

[Cgkdisc]

within what you can remember has there been any other mn courses in the top 10 or even top 25

I think Kaposia may have been in there early on.

 

[elmexdela]

I think Kaposia may have been in there early on.

was the valley on there

 

[Cgkdisc]

was the valley on there

I don't think so and not sure it ever had ratings higher than Kaposia. Our courses got a little bump after the 2014 Am Worlds but not into top 25.

 

[elmexdela]

I don't think so and not sure it ever had ratings higher than Kaposia. Our courses got a little bump after the 2014 Am Worlds but not into top 25.

ok thank you

interesting to hear the history

 

[dreadlock86]

Since nobody else answered your question, yes, Bryant Lake was also in the top 10 with BRP.

Both courses are a lot of fun and both are well cared for courses. Both are deserving of high ratings but neither really have the topography to be top 10 now.

didn't VQ pop in there for a minute at the 9 or 10 spot?

 

[elmexdela]

didn't VQ pop in there for a minute at the 9 or 10 spot?

somewhere close

now it hasnt been reviewed in over a year which is hilarious its probably now stuck there too no one wants to go there cuz its allegedly ran down and neglected

 

[wolfhaley]

do you not believe in perfection?... or are you still waiting for that course that finally gets that one 5 you're saving for the greatest course ever?.. or do you just like to see movement in the top 10?

I could care less about movement in the top 10. I don't think a 4.5 is a bad score by any means. A review is based off YOUR opinion of a course. I've played some good ones. I feel I justify my reasons in my reviews. If you don't like them feel free to give me down vote. But it is just MY opinion. Do it your way and I'll do it my way. And life will go on.

 

[wolfhaley]

somewhere close

now it hasnt been reviewed in over a year which is hilarious its probably now stuck there too no one wants to go there cuz its allegedly ran down and neglected

I thought VQ was in there too. Maybe #10 only, but I thought it was.

I could also be completely wrong about that.

 

[DiscGolfCraig]

So DiscGolfCraig, it's a logical fallacy akin to the straw man argument to say that because people who have not reviewed before, don't know what they are talking about. Just the same a saying because a person has 50 reviews does know what they are talking about.

Many of the folks that have reviewed Caliber are from out of state. Ive had folks in from 20 or so different states this past summer just to play this course. Groups from Salt Lake, Boise, Portland, Seattle, Pocatello, Missoula, Libby, Kallispell, Tricities (WA), and Bend have come twice to visit because they enjoyed it so much.

Honestly, it's pretty conceited to think a first time reviewer lacks experience. There are some very seasoned players out there who are very articulate and intelligent that you do not know about. Many of those folks have never felt the drive to review, just like some players do.

The guy who gave me a 3, for example, is a total fraud. He came to league play last summer, there were roughly 40 there that day. He was approximately 23 years old, been playing 1.5 years. My shop was in disarray with some used discs in the back in a box somewhere. He wanted my attention to search through them, I helped the best I could. He got frustrated because I couldn't find for him what he didn't even know he wanted. I did my best. He shot 89 or 92 or something, lost a disc or two and split not in a great mood. So he goes and gives me a 3 to spite me, gives other courses in the area a 4 that are far lesser of venues.

Here's the fraudulent part, he stated at the time of his review that he'd been playing for 23.5 years, when he was actually only 23.5 years old. Tried to make himself look like a big shot when the opposite was true.

Moral of the story, don't judge a book by its cover. Some of those first time reviewers would take your lunch money 5 days a week on any course and are very good, "well read" players who know exactly what the hell they are talking about, just never felt the need to review before.

You're new so I'll sum the argument up in two words: Pendleton King.

Every review should be weighed equally. Some people think more experienced players/TRers should have their reviews more heavily weighted. I've always argued against that. I like all perspectives. What is harmful to the site are the drive by 5-star reviews.

Look at the amount of garbage 9-hole courses that have high ratings on UDisc. It's hard to sort out the good and bad courses on that site because seemingly every single course has a 4.0+ rating.