Champ Shark!?!? Way to fall in love with the homeless man's Buzzz.
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[MVP] MVP Axis
- Thread starter JoshEpoo
- Start date
Champ Shark!?!? Way to fall in love with the homeless man's Buzzz.
cfair
* Ace Member *
Does MVP plan on making a "understable" mid? I would love to pair up a vector with something like a longer comet. (drool)
If the vector is roc-like would the axis be buzzz-like?
If the vector is roc-like would the axis be buzzz-like?
Technohic
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2009
- Messages
- 8,517
Do you think the Shark and Buzzz are really that similar? I feel like the Shark is a little slower for some reason.
I'm pretty certain that MVP plans on making an understable midrange. I've had conversations with Chad regarding midranges and stabilities, and we've definitely talked about something more understable than the Axis. The specifics are anyone's guess...If I were MVP I'd release a driver next because all I hear when I'm talking to people about MVP is "when are they going to make a driver?"
The Axis is not all that much like a Buzzz...I've thrown most mids on the market, and honestly the Axis is not all that much like any of them. It takes a cleaner throw than the Buzzz to work properly, but flies more effortlessly.
UnitedPuppySlayer
* Ace Member *
I'd like to see an under stable putter and mid before a driver.
maansmit
Double Eagle Member
I'd like a nice fairway driver, not some warp speed monstrosity.
maansmit
Double Eagle Member
Yeah, that too.
Rocaholic74
* Ace Member *
^^^ I third that request...lower weights in all their discs would be killer!!
Timko
* Ace Member *
This.
UnitedPuppySlayer
* Ace Member *
^^^ Thank you for realizing that they should fill out their line, before they build it up.
justin
Double Eagle Member
I certainly respect all opinions so but I disagree with the comments about filling out the line. MVP Disc Sports is a little part of Maple Valley Plastic and they certainly need to prove the value and profitability of the disc golf division. Drivers outsell putters and midranges by a long shot and there are many players/customers who would not consider altering their putter or midrange but might be willing to experiment with a new driver so simply by releasing a driver MVP could get a new product into the hands of many new customers who would not have purchased any of their existing products. So I think their "need" should be more focused on profitability/volume of sales as well as reaching an increasing customer base.
All that said, I would love an overstable putter like a VP or Pig but that won't sell as well as a fairway or distance driver. I would MOST like to see a grippier plastic on their putters. Something like Star or Pro plastic. I hear a great many, "It's too slick for a putter" comments and in colder weather I absolutely agree.
All that said, I would love an overstable putter like a VP or Pig but that won't sell as well as a fairway or distance driver. I would MOST like to see a grippier plastic on their putters. Something like Star or Pro plastic. I hear a great many, "It's too slick for a putter" comments and in colder weather I absolutely agree.
^^^^ i'm pretty sure the ion has done pretty well as far making them profits. the idea that people are more willing to buy a driver than a midrange or putter is true but think about repeat business. it's also harder to keep a person buying the same driver over and over again. people try out new drivers all the time and that trend will continue. a person could love the MVP driver but still buy other drivers that are new or stay loyal to their current brand/driver. if you can get someone to try your putter or mid and love it then they'll buy it over and over again. people stay more loyal to putters and mids than they do to drivers.
business isn't about getting a person to try your product once, it's about getting them to try it and keep on coming back for more. you'll never succeed just putting out flashy products that end up being fads. the most successful businesses have core products that hold their company financially strong so they can throw out the fad stuff and limited time products that they know won't hold the market. drivers are for the most part the flashy fad products of disc golf.. putters and mids are the core.
business isn't about getting a person to try your product once, it's about getting them to try it and keep on coming back for more. you'll never succeed just putting out flashy products that end up being fads. the most successful businesses have core products that hold their company financially strong so they can throw out the fad stuff and limited time products that they know won't hold the market. drivers are for the most part the flashy fad products of disc golf.. putters and mids are the core.
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cfair
* Ace Member *
Again, they should just take the old ion stability and use that. They could have a strong stable putter like the current one, an understable one. A overstable mid (vector), a stable mid (axis), and that would be 4 molds under their belt that they already have. Then I don't care if they do a driver or understable mid next. As long as that understable mid is beat TP comet like
justin
Double Eagle Member
Very well put New013. I was making the assumption that an MVP driver would be high quality and not a fad but the main intent I may have drifted from is that they should go into drivers next rather than filling out the line as UnitedPuppySlayer suggested. Again, I'm just disagreeing with him and other folks. I'm not saying it's a correct vs incorrect argument.
That's interesting about the repeat purchases. I find I go through drivers far more often than mids and putters. I'll use the same putter for years (and I mean a single disc not a stack of the same mold) but drivers get lost and beat much more quickly. We're all different though.
Lastly, I'll comment on the profitability. Just because they're selling what we think is a lot of Ions doesn't mean it meets Maple Valley Plastic's goals. Brad does make it sound like the company is happy with his and Chad's sales though. I had a discussion with Steve Dodge at Vibram about this idea last year. Vibram is a very large company and luckily they set the bar for success (gross revenue and units) very low. I'm sure you can imagine a company like Nike coming in and leaving after a year or two because they "only" sold a million units. MVP and Vibram aren't like ABC which started as discs only so it's ok if ABC only sold 1,000 discs in their first year. (No, I do not have ABC numbers it's just an example).
Feel free to comment but there probably isn't a need for me to reply further on this.
That's interesting about the repeat purchases. I find I go through drivers far more often than mids and putters. I'll use the same putter for years (and I mean a single disc not a stack of the same mold) but drivers get lost and beat much more quickly. We're all different though.
Lastly, I'll comment on the profitability. Just because they're selling what we think is a lot of Ions doesn't mean it meets Maple Valley Plastic's goals. Brad does make it sound like the company is happy with his and Chad's sales though. I had a discussion with Steve Dodge at Vibram about this idea last year. Vibram is a very large company and luckily they set the bar for success (gross revenue and units) very low. I'm sure you can imagine a company like Nike coming in and leaving after a year or two because they "only" sold a million units. MVP and Vibram aren't like ABC which started as discs only so it's ok if ABC only sold 1,000 discs in their first year. (No, I do not have ABC numbers it's just an example).
Feel free to comment but there probably isn't a need for me to reply further on this.
Technohic
* Ace Member *
- Joined
- Jul 27, 2009
- Messages
- 8,517
You are basically talking about expanding their market to those who are not interested in a mid or putter and have no interest in their current line up; but there could be a case for expanding to those who are interested in their current line up but are left out due to lack of variety in weights. Ultimately, does that reduce their market as they venture into drivers while still not offering much below 170g?
Then there would be a question of how hard would it be to run an already designed disc, lighter; vs designing and testing yet another disc. Also, if they cannot fill the demand for a variety of weights for 3 molds, it would leave one to question their ability to do so for 4 and beyond. maybe going straight for max profit would not be the same as going for longevity.
Then there would be a question of how hard would it be to run an already designed disc, lighter; vs designing and testing yet another disc. Also, if they cannot fill the demand for a variety of weights for 3 molds, it would leave one to question their ability to do so for 4 and beyond. maybe going straight for max profit would not be the same as going for longevity.
From the discussions I've had with Chad it seems they are most interested in keeping whatever they decide to produce at the highest quality possible. They don't seem intent on releasing anything that they aren't happy with. their release schedule with certain things like drivers or lower weights might feel slow at times, but at least you know you'll be getting a quality disc and not a poorly made one.
I know the Vectors have varied quite a bit from the FR to the current ones, but from what I've seen of their currently produced stock they are making some of the most consistently molded discs I have thrown. Whatever they do, they need to keep doing this I think. Having a reputation for quality and consistency will go a long way in winning over repeat customers.
I know the Vectors have varied quite a bit from the FR to the current ones, but from what I've seen of their currently produced stock they are making some of the most consistently molded discs I have thrown. Whatever they do, they need to keep doing this I think. Having a reputation for quality and consistency will go a long way in winning over repeat customers.
justin
Double Eagle Member
^^^ Ok, I'll reply to this since I won't be repeating myself this time
Last fall Brad was telling me that their most recent price increase was due to some upcoming changes in manufacturing quality/process and QA. Sometimes I wonder if anyone cares about QA at other companies. I think we've all seen two drivers come out of the same box in the same weight and color. One is completely flat and the other is domey with a pop-top. Oye!
I took this additional investment in time/staff/equipment to be an extremely good sign for the longevity of their DG division.
Last fall Brad was telling me that their most recent price increase was due to some upcoming changes in manufacturing quality/process and QA. Sometimes I wonder if anyone cares about QA at other companies. I think we've all seen two drivers come out of the same box in the same weight and color. One is completely flat and the other is domey with a pop-top. Oye!
I took this additional investment in time/staff/equipment to be an extremely good sign for the longevity of their DG division.
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