[Vibram] New fairways - Notch, Arch

[Bultx1215]

I wonder if he just meant that in terms of making it their base from which to work. Seems like if Vibram is only going to put out 16 molds total, it'll be tough to keep up in a growing market.

Won't be that tough if they actually work as promised. Why carry 30 if 16 will do all you need? I doubt they will just do 16, though. They are a business after all. Gotta move forward to make money.


I just want a XXX/Trident style disc and a super OS mid. That would make me happy.

 

[roggenb3]

They are a business after all. Gotta move forward to make money.

Yeah, but DG for Vibram is like a side hobby when compared to producing soles (not the putting kind), which is where they probably make the vast majority of their money.

 

[Bultx1215]

Yeah, but DG for Vibram is like a side hobby when compared to producing soles (not the putting kind), which is where they probably make the vast majority of their money.

Agreed. Still, R&D and production have costs that need to be compensated. I actually think they have a pretty good business model. Not flooding the market like some. When they put out new stuff, they don't have flops.

 

[Qikly]

Agreed. Still, R&D and production have costs that need to be compensated. I actually think they have a pretty good business model. Not flooding the market like some. When they put out new stuff, they don't have flops.

While a company taking their time can be a positive, I think Vibram has pushed things to an extreme in their case. They have really slowed down over the past year and a half or so. And I'd have to disagree that all that extra lead time necessarily translates into not having flops: the Ascent is just one example that seems like it's been a dud. I know a lot of golfers who have gotten their hands on one and been disappointed.

 

[BrotherDave]

While a company taking their time can be a positive, I think Vibram has pushed things to an extreme in their case. They have really slowed down over the past year and a half or so. And I'd have to disagree that all that extra lead time necessarily translates into not having flops: the Ascent is just one example that seems like it's been a dud. I know a lot of golfers who have gotten their hands on one and been disappointed.

I know a lot of golfers who have gotten their hands on a Roc and been disappointed too but I know what you mean. I really like the Ascent but it did go through a big stability overhaul. The only really misguided thing Vibram has done IMO is come out with all those brown and green discs that were so easy to lose. I think they need some more beginner friendly/understable discs too.

 

[Bultx1215]

While a company taking their time can be a positive, I think Vibram has pushed things to an extreme in their case. They have really slowed down over the past year and a half or so. And I'd have to disagree that all that extra lead time necessarily translates into not having flops: the Ascent is just one example that seems like it's been a dud. I know a lot of golfers who have gotten their hands on one and been disappointed.

I can give you some of that...don't quite see it as extreme, but close to extreme maybe? Or within sight of extreme? One or two a year would be nice. I wonder what the slow up is...R&D, the rubber not doing what they want? Product availability as in raw materials? Are they being too picky? Hard to say.

I actually like the Ascent and bag two. Would like a disc like it but with lots more turn to help it out. This is another reason I don't think they will just do 16 models....too much individual preference to be so limited. What works for one doesn't necessarily work for another. I'm a prime example of that. Give the hordes of rubber lovers several choices in the slot and they will find a niche they can work with most likely.

BUT...I do agree. Lets get this train rolling a little more.

 

[Mocheez]

This quote is from September 2014. I don't think they will stop at 16, but they will likely fill out the 16 disc model prior to releasing anything else.

We've been a touch slower than I would have initially hoped this year, but overall, I'm much happier with slow and steady releases than what some others have done. I see a grid of 16 discs as being the base and by Summer of next year, we will be very close to having that grid full.

I see Tom Kim started a petition to get us to make a slow, deep, overstable putter. Perhaps it would double as a good, rubber catch disc for warming up. Where would you all put this in the priority queue? (I know where I've got it pegged, I want to hear more input to see if I should tweak my thinking.)

 

[Monkeypaws]

I like the Ascent a lot - to me the dud is the Obex.

 

[Qikly]

I can give you some of that...don't quite see it as extreme, but close to extreme maybe? Or within sight of extreme? One or two a year would be nice. I wonder what the slow up is...R&D, the rubber not doing what they want? Product availability as in raw materials? Are they being too picky? Hard to say.

I actually like the Ascent and bag two. Would like a disc like it but with lots more turn to help it out. This is another reason I don't think they will just do 16 models....too much individual preference to be so limited. What works for one doesn't necessarily work for another. I'm a prime example of that. Give the hordes of rubber lovers several choices in the slot and they will find a niche they can work with most likely.

BUT...I do agree. Lets get this train rolling a little more.

Yeah I think 1-2 a year is their template, but with that slow a release rate, if anything gets delayed etc it really creates a gap in their output. I know the whole 420 name thing delayed the Solace. I also wonder if the recent settling of the FiveFingers lawsuit put a dent in their budget and associatedly slowed down the DG side (just supposition).

I tend to complain about Vibram's slow releases mostly because I'm a huge fan of their company but just haven't found a spot for too many of their present discs. I would love to try others out, but, there really aren't any. I see them doing small things to sustain their brand like the webcast vids, Birdie Bashes, and little games (Lugs, was it?), which is cool enough, but when it comes down to it manufacturers are defined by their discs and their line up, and on this front Vibram has moved much more slowly than, say, the development of my own bag, which has marginalized their role in my DG life. I'm the kind of guy who likes to proactively endorse the things I'm into, be it music, football, or disc golf brands, and it's gotten harder and harder for me to endorse Vibram as they've lain relatively dormant in recent times. I still espouse the benefits of the Lace for good but not great arms and their Soft discs for approaches, but right now Vibram occupies a relatively small part of my bag in large part because they haven't given me options to try out and haven't given much appearance of moving towards doing so. Just my $.02.

 

[Bultx1215]

My Obex is a dud too. Softie that goes dead nutz straight with zero fade unless I put some turn in it myself. I am carrying a Mace and Pain for some semi OS mids and a Trident for a good hard turn. Other than that, the bag is all Vibram.

 

[Aim For The Chains]

I gave up on vibram due to their slow pace of new offerings honestly. I like some of the discs a lot but it was just ZZZzzzz trying to fill a bag of them.

 

[TrustYourRubber]

I throw all Vibrams. Haven't picked up the Solace yet though... will need to get a bigger bag once the Arch and Notch are live.

I've enjoyed reading this thread, but I subscribe more to the philosophy of learning the discs in the bag and learning new throws with each disc. Example: I'm learning to throw thumbers and tomahawks more, because they come in handy on many tricky fairways. I also throw RHBH, RHFH, and LHBH for different shots. Different strokes

 

[TrustYourRubber]

P.S. the Ridge is $$$. A few good discs like the Ridge and VP are reason enough to go slow with releases. These discs are prime, but many experienced players have settled elsewhere, especially with their putting game.

 

[Qikly]

I've enjoyed reading this thread, but I subscribe more to the philosophy of learning the discs in the bag and learning new throws with each disc. Example: I'm learning to throw thumbers and tomahawks more, because they come in handy on many tricky fairways. I also throw RHBH, RHFH, and LHBH for different shots. Different strokes

I totally understand this, and have used simplicity as my own guideline as I've built my bag. Interestingly, though, I've been drawn to expand things a bit and integrate more niche discs in recent months as my game has taken the next step. I still throw 3-4 molds for the vast majority of my shots, but I'm also increasingly becoming interested in specialized discs that make certain common shots much easier: the Proxy for short range tunnel shots, for example, with its awesome HSS and true zero fade, or the Soft VP which I approach with whenever possible. As my skills have expanded, I've (perhaps paradoxically) been increasingly drawn to expanding my bag to make sure that all my lines are truly covered and that I have as rich a repertoire of possibilities as possible without spreading myself too thin with too many molds. I think it's a balance, and I'm more or less happy with the one I've struck, though it's been good to test the waters a bit on adding molds rather than just replacing them.

I also think that the fact that I try to play a lot of different courses adds to the need to have a deeper bag. I once heard someone who carries a lot of molds say that they need to prepare for unforeseen circumstances because they play a lot of courses. That stuck with me. I've certainly seen that one of the benefits of playing new courses is they force you out of your comfort zone: for example, last month I played a much more wooded and hilly course than my home one (Bogue Chitto), and found myself leaning on the understable side of my bag much more than usual owing to all the uphill drives I faced. It was interesting to drive half the holes with a disc that usually sees a more specialized work load, and it made me reassess its use on other shots.

Just some thoughts. Like you said, different strokes. :thmbup:

 

[bballr4567]

I've been throwing Vibram for almost 9 months now and I can't begin to think that I need more molds to come out faster. I have enough issues learning how the different weights and rubber really effect the flight.

Heck, this year will see 3 molds from Vibram that will flesh out the fairways for most all people. Last year gave us pretty solid distance drivers too. I just don't understand why some want 9 molds a year just for the heck of it.

 

[DanJon]

Some companies just can't win.

Innova releases too many.

Vibram not enough.

I personally like their model. It's obviously not the money-maker for Vibram so it makes sense they would have fewer new releases each year. That and their production time is way higher than other companies.

 

[Uncle Dougie]

At least they're doing more than Discraft has been doing. Wait, Discrap still makes discs?

 

[hempies]

From Aaron Ala...

Some geek specs:
W(cm)/D(cm)/PLH/R
R448: 1.8/1.0/0/3
Trak: 1.9/1.2/1/2
Trek: 1.9/1.2/1/2
Ascent:1.9/1.2/2/1
Arch: 1.8/1.1/2/3
Valley: 1.8/1.08/3/3
Notch: 1.8/1.2/4/3

(W=rim width, D= rim depth, PLH= parting line height "relative scale", R= rim roundness "relative scale)

 

[wkelly42]

I like my Vibram discs, even though all I've got now are a couple lighter Ridges and an Ibex. LOVED my Trak before I lost it in Charlotte, and was disappointed when I couldn't get one for the Birdie Bash this year. Sounds like I'll be bagging an Arch and maybe a Notch as well, as I expand my driver selection.

 

[BrotherDave]

Vibram is the new Millennium. Cult following of people that like the no-nonsense, bare bones lineup of discs.