I know some situations, several in fact, wherein the rule change doesn't help/affect anything at all. There are cases where you can go OB on a parallel creek, and there is NO inbounds area back and along the line of play.
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New "Free Optional Relief" clarification
- Thread starter EricW
- Start date
I know some situations, several in fact, wherein the rule change doesn't help/affect anything at all. There are cases where you can go OB on a parallel creek, and there is NO inbounds area back and along the line of play.
Smigles
* Ace Member *
I dislike the new version. IMO you should always play as near to your lie as possible. Being allowed to go 30 meters back the fairway to have an easier upshot (different angle, gap etc.) should not be a possibility.
When the OB line is in the middlwe of the swamp or a steep cliff you should wonder why the line is not at the edge of the swamp/cliff instead, not change the rules.
This rule change seems to be made by the same guy who did the new definition of where you have to stand when making a shot. Watering down the rules seems to be the motto of the 2018 rules changes.
When the OB line is in the middlwe of the swamp or a steep cliff you should wonder why the line is not at the edge of the swamp/cliff instead, not change the rules.
This rule change seems to be made by the same guy who did the new definition of where you have to stand when making a shot. Watering down the rules seems to be the motto of the 2018 rules changes.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
Every foot moving back is statistically an additional penalty with every 30 feet about 0.1 increase in average score. And consider you're doing that after already taking a penalty.
Actually, the rules, especially those that support newer punitive course designs are still not rolled back enough. I don't understand why people feel the need to punish players versus simply challenge them. Players make their own throwing mistakes no matter how easy the challenges may be. Just look at the wide ranging locations of the discs after everyone has thrown a wide open 220 ft CTP throw-off.
Smigles
* Ace Member *
How is forcing people to play from a specific lie (instead of picking and chosing) a punishment?
We set up several OB's on our course in a way that you dont have an easy hyzer-upshot if you throw OB. (IMO making the holw actually more challenging). Sometimes we make it especially so that we have bushes in place that cover paths you could throw onto from areas where you are likely to go OB.
If you can just take another 10 meters back and completely change the approach angle that makes it easier IMO and waters down the course design.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
The mistake is having OB regularly in play in the first place. It's not fun and it's definitely not necessary if in fact the lies near OB are already challenging. You're simply double penalizing players for throws only somewhat offline. Ball golf has shown us how to challenge players with offline shots simply providing tougher challenges like taller grass and sand traps with no penalties needed. Disc golf can do the same with trees or distance penalties but not by padding scores with strokes.
Smigles
* Ace Member *
We have our course in a quite crowded parc and "paths and over" are usually OB.
The mistake is definitly the rule, not how we set up OB's, mandos etc for safety reasons.
Yes we would love to have a challenging enugh terrain with no other people around so that we dont need any OBs or mandos. Unfortunately this is not available.
But I can of course ask our parcs department to close the parc to all other people so that the new pdga rules make more sense...
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
A rule should rarely be used for "safety". A rule does not stop errant throws from going where they shouldn't go.We have our course in a quite crowded parc and "paths and over" are usually OB.
The mistake is definitly the rule, not how we set up OB's, mandos etc for safety reasons.
Yes we would love to have a challenging enugh terrain with no other people around so that we dont need any OBs or mandos. Unfortunately this is not available.
But I can of course ask our parcs department to close the parc to all other people so that the new pdga rules make more sense...
Smigles
* Ace Member *
That's all good in wishland.
I live in a part of the world where discgolf is rarely heared of and we are tolerated to use a quite busy parc as long as there are no accidents that lead to complaints.
Anyway, that is totally off topic.
The rule change in question changes from "play from this defined point" to "play anywhere you like along this line" (lines are infinite btw). I find this goes away from the spirit of the sport. Choosing your lie should not be part of the sport IMO.
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So, if it's already a difficult throw if you go there, and you don't want people to be able to go back along the line of play, why not turn those OB areas into the new Relief Areas? It works just like OB without the penalty. So, they can't play from across the path, and they have to play from within the bushes, but without the penalty, the player doesn't get free optional relief.
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
I understand that thinking as it relates to ball golf. However, the underlying game concept in ball golf is to challenge players without needing to apply penalties for relatively minor accuracy errors. They have followed this underlying concept using rough and sand traps and only penalize when a player chooses to move from the challenging lie.
The same underlying concept can be applied for disc golf design but it has to be done in a different way since most playing surface differences rarely provide enough differential challenge. In disc golf, we try to provide the challenge with vertical objects, primarily trees when available. When they are not available our only other tool to add some challenge without an immediate penalty is distance unless you have the budget to add dozens of trees or even just posts in strategic locations.
The most severe distance "penalty" is to re-throw from the previous lie which is roughly equivalent to a 1-throw penalty, still more than what a sand trap or rough typically renders in ball golf. So strategically placing free relief areas (like Steve mentioned above) that require a player to move to a no penalty drop zone say 100 feet back, perhaps also located where there's a more challenging route, and with the option to re-throw with no penalty, are more consistent ways to proportionally challenge players to parallel the underlying concept successfully applied in ball golf to challenge players to execute recoveries versus the less elegant penalty plus the (usually) get out of jail lie approach that has become common in disc golf design.
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brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
We have our course in a quite crowded parc and "paths and over" are usually OB.
The mistake is definitly the rule, not how we set up OB's, mandos etc for safety reasons.
Yes we would love to have a challenging enugh terrain with no other people around so that we dont need any OBs or mandos. Unfortunately this is not available.
But I can of course ask our parcs department to close the parc to all other people so that the new pdga rules make more sense...
Just make a drop zone. Then they have to play from there or previous lie...
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krupicka
Double Eagle Member
Which requires approval from the Tour Manager btw. The approval is a wholly unneeded step dictated by the PDGA IMO.
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
You need approval for a drop zone??
If you're going to restrict players to only using it after throwing OB, yes. The rule states that any restrictions on a player's OB options requires Tour Manager approval, not just restricting to previous lie.
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
I wonder how many of the umpteenth events I've played with drop zones should be erased from history?...
Cgkdisc
.:Hall of Fame Member:.
I'm hopeful course designers and TDs can eventually get "permanent" approval for certain course design elements always used for tournaments. Krupicka, for example, the current "move back on LOP" rule we have for landing in the buncr mounds on hole 18/19 at Fairfield are not within 2018 rules even though our course rule works well as a fair challenge.
krupicka
Double Eagle Member
Yet another item to add to my list of exemptions...
Smigles
* Ace Member *
We'll have to look at it. But I guess that is the best option now.
after viewing the video on rule explanation. i still stand by that big arms are the only ones to benefit from the farther back lie. great example would be simon on his huge sky anny and avoiding all the rough. i dont have the link. but big arms are going to be able to stand waaaaay back and throw a bomb over all the trouble areas and park it.
i predict this rule is going to be changed in 2019.
its a horrid and not well thought out rule.
i predict this rule is going to be changed in 2019.
its a horrid and not well thought out rule.
brutalbrutus
* Ace Member *
It would also be unfair to the big arms guys to have to throw from a position that benefits other types of players, after making the same mistake. Why should one type of player benefit from a mistake over another type of player? This rule lets all types of players pick the shot they are comfortable with. As far as it being not well thought out, this rule has been a part of golf for a long time...
