Paige Pierce #29190

[scooby snack]

I think 21 was definitely the wrong age to use as an example. But I also think there's a nugget of truth to the idea that an 8.5 round Worlds is a younger competitor's length of event, and I dare say that would probably correlate with touring all-year-long and having the best overall season given lil aches and pains. After all - Climo stopped climbing this particular mountain every year once he hit 30 years old (admittedly he still won 3 more Worlds, and won 2 more in the next 4 years - but he was also just SO far ahead of the field of that era).

That was my point. At 21, most players are just starting to mature and they still have youth on their side.

 

[foxdawg10]

I guess no one told Climo.

Or Ron Russell, he was in mid 30s when he beat Climo in 1999. I was being slightly facetious, but I believe guys like Eagle and the other young guns today would have an advantage regarding stamina over 8.5 rounds. Maybe I'm wrong, since there is a stronger emphasis on fitness at the top level now.

 

[jenb]

I like how Brodie's putting goes downhill and everyone's like, "every pro has a slump from time to time," but PP has a couple of bad tournaments and everyone says, "stick a fork in her, she's done."

 

[Superbford]

I like how Brodie's putting goes downhill and everyone's like, "every pro has a slump from time to time," but PP has a couple of bad tournaments and everyone says, "stick a fork in her, she's done."

Anyone thinking she is done at this point is certainly being silly in my opinion. When you are the best at something though, more people are going to speculate on what might be the reason. Even when it likely to be a combination of things.

She is going to win some big events this season, I'm sure. The competition is stepping up though so when she is off a round or two it is going to be tougher than ever to win.

I think she will win sooner than later. She has too much talent and drive to stay below her high expectations for long.

 

[VictorB]

Or Ron Russell, he was in mid 30s when he beat Climo in 1999. I was being slightly facetious, but I believe guys like Eagle and the other young guns today would have an advantage regarding stamina over 8.5 rounds. Maybe I'm wrong, since there is a stronger emphasis on fitness at the top level now.

Not necessarily true.

I think the McBeth&Simon video was a good example. I think younger guys (and those with the mentality) are probably overthrowing or trying to reach shots that take more if a toll on your body than older, smarter golfers. After r4 it's a lot more likely that someone who exerts a ton of effort to throw will be done than someone who is more of a "take what the course gives you" kind of player

 

[ChrisWoj]

Not necessarily true.

I think the McBeth&Simon video was a good example. I think younger guys (and those with the mentality) are probably overthrowing or trying to reach shots that take more if a toll on your body than older, smarter golfers. After r4 it's a lot more likely that someone who exerts a ton of effort to throw will be done than someone who is more of a "take what the course gives you" kind of player

This could be used as a reasonable explanation for why Nikko fell off so hard at Worlds 2008, when he was still a 19 y/o kid. After four rounds of pumping force-flexes on OS plastic the body was off.

 

[Nick Pacific]

This could be used as a reasonable explanation for why Nikko fell off so hard at Worlds 2008, when he was still a 19 y/o kid. After four rounds of pumping force-flexes on OS plastic the body was off.

Those were Dave's hometown courses too. Feldberg, in his prime, on his hometown courses in 2008 was going to be tough for anyone, in any era, to beat.

I'm taking Dave on those courses in 2008 against anyone current or past. He won playing 8.5 rounds for a reason, nobody was beating him that week. He beat prime time Climo, Schultz, Doss, Jenkins, Anthon, a whole host of killers

Check out this list of gun slingers

https://www.pdga.com/tour/event/7276#MPO

 

[biscoe]

I think y'all vastly overestimate the physical difficulty of playing disc golf... while it takes a toll on certain body parts over time it isn't like running a triathlon.

 

[VictorB]

I think y'all vastly overestimate the physical difficulty of playing disc golf... while it takes a toll on certain body parts over time it isn't like running a triathlon.

The physical difficulty of how I play disc golf is not high, and it still wears me out when I have a big weekend of like 5-6 rounds. But I'm out of shape and old and my courses aren't really that difficult to navigate. I'm also not a 'real' pro and sit at a desk far too much for my job.

I'd imagine that even the best conditioned pros will have issues over 8 rounds on most world champ level courses, both physically and mentally.

 

[Dcinmd]

I think y'all vastly overestimate the physical difficulty of playing disc golf... while it takes a toll on certain body parts over time it isn't like running a triathlon.

Climbing up and down the hill on the dam side of Lake Marshall 8 times on a 99 degree day sure made me feel like I participated in a triathlon.

In retrospect there is a difference between 2 round day versus a single round day at worlds.

 

[Hampstead]

I'm going to go out on a limb and speculate that most pros are not in triathlon shape.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Those were Dave's hometown courses too. Feldberg, in his prime, on his hometown courses in 2008 was going to be tough for anyone, in any era, to beat.

I'm taking Dave on those courses in 2008 against anyone current or past. He won playing 8.5 rounds for a reason, nobody was beating him that week. He beat prime time Climo, Schultz, Doss, Jenkins, Anthon, a whole host of killers

Check out this list of gun slingers

https://www.pdga.com/tour/event/7276#MPO

However, through 4 rounds on those layouts Nikko had him by 3. And had Nikko continued playing at that level on those same layouts Nikko would have won the event. However, relevant to the point I was making, Nikko went from 1061 golf in the first 4 rounds to 998 golf in the next 4 rounds. In response to Victor stating that players using a max-effort style may be more likely to be fatigued - I wondered if that may be why Nikko had such an extreme drop off in play. If it was a problem with not knowing the courses, he wouldn't have had such a stellar first four rounds.

I think y'all vastly overestimate the physical difficulty of playing disc golf... while it takes a toll on certain body parts over time it isn't like running a triathlon.

These aren't triathletes, and max effort at the task they train their bodies for is going to cause fatigue in the tissues associated with the activity. I don't think anyone is overestimating the physicality here thus far.

 

[Nick Pacific]

However, through 4 rounds on those layouts Nikko had him by 3. And had Nikko continued playing at that level on those same layouts Nikko would have won the event. However, relevant to the point I was making, Nikko went from 1061 golf in the first 4 rounds to 998 golf in the next 4 rounds. In response to Victor stating that players using a max-effort style may be more likely to be fatigued - I wondered if that may be why Nikko had such an extreme drop off in play. If it was a problem with not knowing the courses, he wouldn't have had such a stellar first four rounds.

.

Probably some truth to that. There's so many variables though. In terms of fatigue I would think even with how hard Nikko threw, at 145 lbs he is carrying around a LOT less weight than Dave or anyone else in MPO, and he's 19 at the time. Hard to say. I think his lack of experience at the time was the biggest factor. There is a mental side to staying consistent and keeping your head in the game day after day that only comes with experience. Worlds being 8.5 rounds during that time leaves no room for a player having a couple hot rounds/good days. The top dog cream of the crop is rising after 8.5 rounds, and I think on that week nobody, past or present, was beating Dave out there, it was just his time.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Probably some truth to that. There's so many variables though. In terms of fatigue I would think even with how hard Nikko threw, at 145 lbs he is carrying around a LOT less weight than Dave or anyone else in MPO, and he's 19 at the time.

I don't think his weight is really pertinent - at least where I'm focusing my fatigue point. The fatigue would be more in the muscles and tissues around the arm/shoulder/elbow, with him throwing so many force-flexes with OS plastic.

 

[araytx]

That doesn't mean that those people had the same idea of joy or fun as you do - is more to what I mean. For example, for me, I find a LOT of joy in competition. Pursuit of greatness in a true personal passion isn't near the same as pursuing a paycheck in a mid-level bureaucratic position. I don't disagree with the general concept - experience what you can, because you won't get the time back. But I disagree with the notion that Paige necessarily needs to be "careful" in the way you described. Obviously personal to her - but the message seemed to impress your particular idea of joy onto another. I would have agreed far more with your post without the "warning."

Given similar thoughts, how do you compare that to the way Juliana walked away? Or what might today's people be saying if Juliana happened in the 2010s like Paige did, then walked away?

 

[ChrisWoj]

Given similar thoughts, how do you compare that to the way Juliana walked away? Or what might today's people be saying if Juliana happened in the 2010s like Paige did, then walked away?

I don't know any of the specifics of the situation. Can you elaborate?
The only details I have are... Korver was one of the best in the sport's history, the best female, and at about 35 years old she cut back her play dramatically. The only mild assumption I'd made was that she was more interested in other disc sports and chose to focus on them.

 

[Armus Patheticus]

Competitive people are not motivated by joy. The thrill of winning is pitifully fleeting and the glory of winning is a comical fabrication. The only way to preserve satisfaction in an athletically competitive past is to live in it, which is a sickeningly sad way to wind down. I personally know both artists and athletes who are wealthy. They are either idiots, or else vaguely ashamed and uncomfortable people. The wages of flushing your life down the toilet, is money. Not joy.

 

[ChrisWoj]

Competitive people are not motivated by joy. The thrill of winning is pitifully fleeting and the glory of winning is a comical fabrication.

Every single last thing we give meaning to could be described as a comical fabrication.

 

[dehaas]

Lol I run ultra marathons guys and after a long day of dg it's my hips/butt/lower back that fatigue out more than my arm.

 

[kevdiv48]

Lol I run ultra marathons guys and after a long day of dg it's my hips/butt/lower back that fatigue out more than my arm.

I run regularly as well (not ultra- far though haha) and this is also the case for me.