Paul McBeth's diary

[Pwingles]

This was on Facebook? Well, then I wouldn't worry about it.


If you make too much of the payout go to the sharks, you can expect the fish to go swim in another pond. Then how are the sharks eating?

Food for thought.

Yes and no, depending on your PoV
Professional disc golf will continue in its mediocrity until this changes, for better or worse

 

[scarpfish]

The answer is, and always will be until it happens, for the pdga to be a seperate entity from am's, to get outside money ( corporate sponsors ), and put together a bigger and better tour. Steve Dodges idea about a handful of 50k prizepool events is a good one too

Except it fails for the same reason that all ideas about what the pro tour should be fail. It blatantly ignores the real world realities that have been discussed here and on the PDGA boards before that and in face to face conversations before that, that have been going on for thirty years, and just replaces it with some pie in the sky vision, but no practical plan of how we're going to get there from our current situation.

 

[DavidSauls]

If you make too much of the payout go to the sharks, you can expect the fish to go swim in another pond. Then how are the sharks eating?

Food for thought.

Love it.

 

[Pwingles]

Except it fails for the same reason that all ideas about what the pro tour should be fail. It blatantly ignores the real world realities that have been discussed here and on the PDGA boards before that and in face to face conversations before that, that have been going on for thirty years, and just replaces it with some pie in the sky vision, but no practical plan of how we're going to get there from our current situation.

Theres no plan i think mostly because of complacency in the pdga. The sport is booming and nobody benefits monetarily aside from a handful of manufacturers and the pdga.

It benefits the pdga to not change from what its doing because they need the AM money since Ams far outweigh pro's, in both membership due revenue and tourney attendance.

So ideally what needs to happen for the two entities to be necessary is another revenue stream for the professional entity. However it happens is not super important, but the easiest way would be for a large company or two to throw money at a larger tour and supplement a bigger prize pool.

This would allow for people to actually make a living after expenses. That in turn would churn out a whole new batch of young and marketable competitors, with their own images and rivalries and whatnot (similar to extreme sports, nascar, and traditional golf) . Hopefully this would further the sports marketability.

More outside money might mean better coverage of events, which would only help, however its very expensive and for the most part cost prohibitive even at the upper levels of coverage we have now, which is mediocre in my mind (no offense any filmers out there, but you cant argue with more money=better coverage)

The blue print is there, there are two problems that wont go away without help,
Nobody that plays disc golf, can sustain a reasonable lifestyle solely from playing and winning.

And 2, nobody has taken the steps yet. We dont even know how far it could go. So, while i share some of your skepticism, i do not share the opinion that because its been only talked/dreamt about to this point, that it wont ever happen or isnt a reasonable goal

 

[JC17393]

The answer is, and always will be until it happens, for the pdga to be a seperate entity from am's, to get outside money ( corporate sponsors ), and put together a bigger and better tour. Steve Dodges idea about a handful of 50k prizepool events is a good one too

I am relishing the irony that it is the very model event of Steve's "50k prizepool" idea that is the impetus of the latest "the tour is broken" melodrama.

 

[elmexdela]

this **** is turning into a soap opera

 

[wkelly42]

However it happens is not super important, but the easiest way would be for a large company or two to throw money at a larger tour and supplement a bigger prize pool.

HOW it happens is the problem. Do you know of ANY companies that are willing and able to "throw money at a larger tour" other than (possibly) Vibram? You need a revenue stream to support a pro tour, and right now there isn't one if you take the ams out of the PDGA.

I'm all in favor of a separate organization; I've always thought it kinda dumb that as an amateur player I was expected to join the PROFESSIONAL disc golf association to be able to play in AMATEUR tournaments. But I don't see how it's going to happen any time soon; Southern Nationals is as close to an alternative organization as I've seen in disc golf, and it's far from a national thing.

 

[scarpfish]

So ideally what needs to happen for the two entities to be necessary is another revenue stream for the professional entity. However it happens is not super important, but the easiest way would be for a large company or two to throw money at a larger tour and supplement a bigger prize pool.

And why exactly would a large company do that?

This would allow for people to actually make a living after expenses. That in turn would churn out a whole new batch of young and marketable competitors, with their own images and rivalries and whatnot (similar to extreme sports, nascar, and traditional golf) . Hopefully this would further the sports marketability.

Extreme sports and nascar are marketable because of their danger factor. Golf has a lot of old money and prestige involved with it. Disc golf has neither of those.

More outside money might mean better coverage of events, which would only help, however its very expensive and for the most part cost prohibitive even at the upper levels of coverage we have now, which is mediocre in my mind (no offense any filmers out there, but you cant argue with more money=better coverage)

And we are back to this abstract tripe again. Saying this over and over and over isn't going to make it any more true.

The blue print is there, there are two problems that wont go away without help,

Yet, no "grow the sport" advocates address why the "problems" are there. Or that their solution just invites more problems.

Nobody that plays disc golf, can sustain a reasonable lifestyle solely from playing and winning.

Well, guess what? There are greater tragedies in life than not being able to make a sustainable living by throwing plastic discs at metal baskets.

And 2, nobody has taken the steps yet. We dont even know how far it could go. So, while i share some of your skepticism, i do not share the opinion that because its been only talked/dreamt about to this point, that it wont ever happen or isnt a reasonable goal

If it ever does happen, it will take years and years of organic player growth. The problem is that our current touring pros and pretty much everyone reading this is going to be somewhere between the grandmasters division and the afterlife by the time it happens.

 

[1978]

And why exactly would a large company do that?


Extreme sports and nascar are marketable because of their danger factor. Golf has a lot of old money and prestige involved with it. Disc golf has neither of those.


And we are back to this abstract tripe again. Saying this over and over and over isn't going to make it any more true.


Yet, no "grow the sport" advocates address why the "problems" are there. Or that their solution just invites more problems.


Well, guess what? There are greater tragedies in life than not being able to make a sustainable living by throwing plastic discs at metal baskets.


If it ever does happen, it will take years and years of organic player growth. The problem is that our current touring pros and pretty much everyone reading this is going to be somewhere between the grandmasters division and the afterlife by the time it happens.

Yup.

The fastest path to growth is the building, maintenance, and re-design of disc golf courses. There are far too many poorly designed and maintained courses in this world. The PDGA should IMO should be lazer focused on planting courses, facilitating redesign, securing grants, hiring course designers. The state of our playing field is attrocious in most areas. A poorly designed or un-maintained course scares away new players. Very few ball golf courses are as bad off as a majority of our disc golf courses. Some sweaty "I am they" person with a weed wacker should not be the long time solution that most local DG communities employ for regular course maintenance.

 

[JC17393]

The fastest path to growth is the building, maintenance, and re-design of disc golf courses.

The path to this end is getting out of the park systems and into pay-for-play, self-sustaining courses (be they publicly or privately owned). As long as we're still primarily a "flinging pieces of plastic in the park" sport, we're never going to reach the heights that some want for the pro tour.

People talk about the "boom" of the sport, and in terms of manufacturing equipment, we've never seen more quality and variety than we are now. But the true "boom" of the sport, the point at which outside businesses will really take notice, is only going to come when course building, operation, and maintenance is a viable and profitable business.

Ball golf courses don't rely on the "I am THEY" volunteer because they have a budget to hire people to maintain and improve their courses. Mowing and trimming and maintaining even the local muni course isn't left to over-worked parks employees that have 80 other responsibilities, nor is it left to volunteers. It's dedicated staff that makes the ball golf courses look as good as they do. Disc golf can have that too, it just has to break out of the "it's supposed to be free" mentality.

 

[ru4por]

Theres no plan i think mostly because of complacency in the pdga. The sport is booming and nobody benefits monetarily aside from a handful of manufacturers and the pdga.

It benefits the pdga to not change from what its doing because they need the AM money since Ams far outweigh pro's, in both membership due revenue and tourney attendance.

So ideally what needs to happen for the two entities to be necessary is another revenue stream for the professional entity. However it happens is not super important, but the easiest way would be for a large company or two to throw money at a larger tour and supplement a bigger prize pool.

This would allow for people to actually make a living after expenses. That in turn would churn out a whole new batch of young and marketable competitors, with their own images and rivalries and whatnot (similar to extreme sports, nascar, and traditional golf) . Hopefully this would further the sports marketability.

More outside money might mean better coverage of events, which would only help, however its very expensive and for the most part cost prohibitive even at the upper levels of coverage we have now, which is mediocre in my mind (no offense any filmers out there, but you cant argue with more money=better coverage)

The blue print is there, there are two problems that wont go away without help,
Nobody that plays disc golf, can sustain a reasonable lifestyle solely from playing and winning.

And 2, nobody has taken the steps yet. We dont even know how far it could go. So, while i share some of your skepticism, i do not share the opinion that because its been only talked/dreamt about to this point, that it wont ever happen or isnt a reasonable goal

None of this works, because nobody will watch more coverage. Disc golf is a niche game, beloved by us, and will continue to be unknown to most.

 

[bhadella]

The path to this end is getting out of the park systems and into pay-for-play, self-sustaining courses (be they publicly or privately owned). As long as we're still primarily a "flinging pieces of plastic in the park" sport, we're never going to reach the heights that some want for the pro tour.

People talk about the "boom" of the sport, and in terms of manufacturing equipment, we've never seen more quality and variety than we are now. But the true "boom" of the sport, the point at which outside businesses will really take notice, is only going to come when course building, operation, and maintenance is a viable and profitable business.

Ball golf courses don't rely on the "I am THEY" volunteer because they have a budget to hire people to maintain and improve their courses. Mowing and trimming and maintaining even the local muni course isn't left to over-worked parks employees that have 80 other responsibilities, nor is it left to volunteers. It's dedicated staff that makes the ball golf courses look as good as they do. Disc golf can have that too, it just has to break out of the "it's supposed to be free" mentality.

Only problem is you need revenue to justify the expense. Very few private courses are sucessful enough to use as a model. I don't know any that are busy enough to set a full fleet of tee times likely any moderately sucessful ball golf course. Revenue (paying customers in droves) are needed to support P2P.

 

[BionicRib]

The path to this end is getting out of the park systems and into pay-for-play, self-sustaining courses (be they publicly or privately owned). As long as we're still primarily a "flinging pieces of plastic in the park" sport, we're never going to reach the heights that some want for the pro tour.

People talk about the "boom" of the sport, and in terms of manufacturing equipment, we've never seen more quality and variety than we are now. But the true "boom" of the sport, the point at which outside businesses will really take notice, is only going to come when course building, operation, and maintenance is a viable and profitable business.

Ball golf courses don't rely on the "I am THEY" volunteer because they have a budget to hire people to maintain and improve their courses. Mowing and trimming and maintaining even the local muni course isn't left to over-worked parks employees that have 80 other responsibilities, nor is it left to volunteers. It's dedicated staff that makes the ball golf courses look as good as they do. Disc golf can have that too, it just has to break out of the "it's supposed to be free" mentality.

I totally agree...unfortunately it will take time. Volunteers can only take it so far. We need to get away from this formula to gain more respect in the grand scheme if things. Granted all volunteers hearts are in the right places, but how many ball golf courses are funded/designed by local players/clubs?....more food for thought...

 

[Royal Hill]

As much as this thread wanders, like most do, I'd like to add this:

If the discussion is about the ability of current era pro declaring players to have a sustainable life (with disc golf at the center, wise or not) - it seems to me that the answer at this time is that the pro (most if not virtually all) will have to do something beyond collecting winnings to make it work.

That may be the ticket for the here and now as life presents us today.
Recognition of this may be the key to some success vs burnout and dissolution.

That may mean considering, but not limited to: in addition to performance

selling your skill in instruction
selling your skill in media,videos, sponsorship (and maybe beating the streets hard to make that happen)
Selling merchandise (not just token merch, but increasingly so and with vigor)
adding other symbiotic ventures yet unknown.

Higher emphasis then on being self made - and growing the "other stuff" to carry the load in times when performance is not top or to transition into when performance tapers. Some current elite are doing some of these things, but likely not maximizing yet - it takes a strong combo skill set of performance ability, likeability, entrepreneurship to pull it off vs most other ways of life.

How to add a self made business life in addition to high skill performance - boy that's tough! Fully engrossed skills practice, honing, building while also "working it" on side jobs that almost equate to a full time focus... only for a few for sure.

 

[PMcBeth]

Easiest way to describe my post is like this..... Homework in school.... Let's say you Hate history but Love Science..... Just because you got a 100% on both homework assignments doesn't mean you tried as hard on both.... You would realize the science project is way more in-depth and you can tell the time was put in compared to the History project where just enough effort was put in to get by with 100%

I had a 15 year old caddy for me at the Vibram and see the passion he had for the game far excelled mine and hearing the way he talked about disc golf and the future he wanted in the sport made me realize I need to do tenfolds more so kids like him can have a future in this sport without ever having to struggle beside the hard work they need to put into their play.

 

[Rusty Shackleford]

And why exactly would a large company do that?


Extreme sports and nascar are marketable because of their danger factor. Golf has a lot of old money and prestige involved with it. Disc golf has neither of those.


And we are back to this abstract tripe again. Saying this over and over and over isn't going to make it any more true.


Yet, no "grow the sport" advocates address why the "problems" are there. Or that their solution just invites more problems.


Well, guess what? There are greater tragedies in life than not being able to make a sustainable living by throwing plastic discs at metal baskets.


If it ever does happen, it will take years and years of organic player growth. The problem is that our current touring pros and pretty much everyone reading this is going to be somewhere between the grandmasters division and the afterlife by the time it happens.

All good points. Sponsors don't throw buckets of money at PGA events because they want to grow the sport or help give the pros bigger payouts. They're buying an opportunity to put their brand in front of the spectators.

They only way disc golf ever gets enough spectators to attract big sponsors is by organically growing the sport.

 

[Royal Hill]

**my addendum:
When the Prodigy announcement came out, and there was talk of partial "ownership" factors talked about - I thought this was the thing. I expected that the "team members" would become players and strong retailers for the brand. Not just a few discs or apparel, but trailer hauling, inventory carrying, strong retailer/distributors. Roll into events, set up a merch shop, sell and promote like crazy, perform (maybe win) and move on. I imagined some incentivised system by which the prodigy pro would have a strong/hungry incentive to be the one selling, with a good keepers percentage on all transactions they made. Should be doable these days with mobile accounting, CC taking on smartphones, inventory software helpers. From what I've seen, I'm guessing thats not what the plan was. Too bad - the "play well for us, and be personable and a good representer - that's all we ask for you" although good, is not the revolutionary step I was envisioning.

 

[rocthecourse]

I had a 15 year old caddy for me at the Vibram and see the passion he had for the game far excelled mine and hearing the way he talked about disc golf and the future he wanted in the sport made me realize I need to do tenfolds more so kids like him can have a future in this sport without ever having to struggle beside the hard work they need to put into their play.

:thmbup:

 

[OlyWA Kenobi]

Hey! Happy Birthday, Paul!

And thanks for chiming in.

 

[sugarnot]

Easiest way to describe my post is like this..... Homework in school.... Let's say you Hate history but Love Science..... Just because you got a 100% on both homework assignments doesn't mean you tried as hard on both.... You would realize the science project is way more in-depth and you can tell the time was put in compared to the History project where just enough effort was put in to get by with 100%

I had a 15 year old caddy for me at the Vibram and see the passion he had for the game far excelled mine and hearing the way he talked about disc golf and the future he wanted in the sport made me realize I need to do tenfolds more so kids like him can have a future in this sport without ever having to struggle beside the hard work they need to put into their play.

Thank you for chiming in Paul...I appreciate you candidacy on such issues. Do you think that possibly the reason why the 15y/o had such a passion for it could simply be because he is jaded and well.... a 15y/o with no concept of reality and responsibility of normal life regarding paying bills and actually making a living?